Hi Les, I know whewre you are coming from, I used to work for a Company who bulk purchased 14 lb standard bore grand hammers, we had to fit these hammers on everything we had including babies. I devised a four foot vice to place in hammer heads in, with a 12 inch very sharp knife sliced them down to size. then reshaped the noses. I had to remove the rivets when slicing down for the small grands. This of course was done with the hammers off the shanks this of course reduced the weight and the size of the hammers allowing us to fit them on the smaller grands which incidently the bulk of them went to the U.S. and Japan. This is all well and fine for taking the weight down on the whole, however, there is bound to be descrepencies if you weigh hammer to hammer. Re-shaping the hammer or the tail to reduce its weight so you have like for like. I would imagine you would end up with a rather messy job. Unless of course you know different. I personally don't think I would have the skill, to shave off small amounts of felt, off individual hammers and keep the line of sight and shape even over the full set of hammers. I still maintain, if you have chosen your particular brand of hammer heads and they match the overall weight of your originals. The individual descrepencies would be rather difficult to remove. Given the fact, that modern hammers use laser guided cutting techniques and have very fine tolerances on width. The older hammers used standard machine stop slicing, there is bound to be descrepencies of width in an old set of hammers. Therefore, intrroducing small amouts of fluctuation in width. At present the posts refering to hammer shanks for some reason have not arrived yet. There are four articles in this particular subject still missing I have had to date 12 posts on "Bechstein-restauration". Ceedar wood is indeed a rather flexible material, unfortuneately if the moister contents is allowed to deterrioate the the shanks become very brittle. This is a very common problem in the U.K. especially on turn of the century uprights where ceedarwood was very common material for hammer shanks. Regards, Barrie. In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.970322144421.8188A- 100000@buffnet7.buffnet.net>, Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net> writes >Hi, Barrie. > >We're in absolute agreement over the hammer shanks impact on tone >quality. Essnentially the important factor seems to be the flexi- >bility of the different woods. For example many older US-made pianos >used cedar for their shanks a relatively more flexible wood than >the maple used today. We we're talking about it on the list last >night, so you should have the posts. As regards the weight of the >hammers themselves, weighing every replacement hammer against it's >original counterpart is not an idle exercise for those with too much >time on their hands. While it's important to get a replacment hammer >that's as close to the original as possible in terms of over-all >weight and molding weight/felt density weight, there are some things >that can be done to the hammer, itself, to alter it's weight, with- >out having to get into changing the weighting of the action, itself. >The whole point of the hammer exercise is to PRESERVE the original >touch, assuming you and the owner think that that's a desirable thing >to do. What could you do to alter, or refine the weight of the replac- >ment hammers? Think about it. Experiment. Tell us what you come up >with. Also, if you came across a piano which had had its hammers re- >placed with ones that were too heavy, short of replacing the hammers, >or reworking the weighting of the action, is there anything else you >might try? Don't try to guess, actually try some things and let us >know what you come up with? > >Les Smith >lessmith@buffnet.net > >On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Barrie Heaton wrote: > >> Les I don't agree its important to measure the weight of every hammer. >> As there is little you can do to alter the weight of individual hammers >> once you have decided to purchase your particular set. Of course you >> can re-lead the keys, altering the down weights and up weights will >> not only affect repition, but the voice as well. >> >> Also, if we want to be really picky with period pianos. The hammer >> shank has to be taken in to consideration, some early Brimmead pianos >> had oval shaped hammer shanks, with nice little nobly bits behind >> the hammer head. The shape and weight of hammer shanks also plays a >> part in the colour range of a pianos tone this is due to the pianoist >> ability to bend the shank when playing. This will excite different >> harmonics. >> >> Regards, >> >> Barrie. >> >> >> >> In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.970321182103.23080A- >> 100000@buffnet11.buffnet.net>, Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net> writes >> >Ah, now you're bringing another factor, voice, into the matter of >> >hammer selection. It's certainly worthy of consideration, and in the >> >process, complicates things somewhat. The weight of the hammer-- >> >measured in grams--is of comnsiderable importance to the touch of >> >the piano. If we're restoring an instrument where we want to pre- >> >serve the original touch, measuring and matching up the weights of >> >both the original hammers and the replacements becomes of primary >> >importance. And it's not just a matter of weighing and matching up >> >the first and last hammer of each section, it a matter of weighing >> >and matching each hammmr. All eight-eight. Now you want to add to >> >that matter of the "voice" of the hammer. Different moldings-- >> >walnut, mahogany, birch, etc--have different weights, and as the >> >density of different felts vary, so too will their individual weights. >> >So the wieght of a particular hammer depends upon BOTH the type of >> >wood used for the molding and the density of its felt. From a touch >> >standpoint, it really doesn't matter whether the hammer's weight is >> >the result of a heavier molding and a less dense felt, or a lighter >> >molding and a denser felt, but the such a selection can have a big >> >impact on the voice of a particular hammer. In other words, it might >> >be the correct weight, but the voice is all wrong. Kind of like your >> >making that Bechstein sound like a Yamaha! Therefore, not only the >> >weight of the hammer is important, but how that weight is achieved >> >in terms of molding-weight/felt density must be considered, too. >> > >> >Les Smith >> >lessmith@buffnet.net >> > >> >On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Barrie Heaton wrote: >> > >> >> Yes, your on the right tracks. Les and Horace had described density to >> >> you very well. May I add though, the customers requrements should be >> >> taken in to account. I misinterpretered a customers request on his >> >> Bechstine he said it had lost its "umph" my neighbour has a lot of >> >> "umph" His neighbour had a brand new Yamaha which I tune. Which is >> >> very bright and lovely bass. So I assumed he wanted a bright piano. >> >> Boy was I mistaken it took me six months and a loot of visits to tone >> >> those hard hammers down. What he meant by umph he wanted a nicer bass >> >> but he still wanted his Bechstein sound which is a soft mellow treble >> >> compared with a Yamaha. >> >> >> >> Some of the Bechstein Grands start at gage 13 at the top so a dense >> >> hammer is not necessary to produce a quality sound. That's why >> >> personally on grands around the 1920 and down. I tend to go for re- >> >> covering rather than replacing, it is a bit like buying a set of pre- >> >> hung hammers the re-coverer matches the original felt so all you'll have >> >> to do is replace the rollers and re-centrer the hammers plus they are a >> >> little bit cheaper. >> >> >> >> Hope this is of some help. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Barrie. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In article <09151041200001@DEBCOM.BE>, Peter Kestens >> >> <KESTENS.P@Debcom.be> writes >> >> >PETER KESTENS >> >> >Het Muziekinstrumentenatelier >> >> >BELGIUM >> >> >KESTENS.P@Debcom.be >> >> > To Barrie Heaton, >> >> > >> >> >Could the density of the felt being of any importancy? The higher it is, >> >> >the more it weights? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Barrie Heaton | Be Environmentally >Friendly >> >> URL: http://www.airtime.co.uk/forte/piano.htm | To Your Neighbour >> >> The UK PIano Page | >> >> pgp key on request | HAVE YOUR PIANO TUNED >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Barrie Heaton | Be Environmentally Friendly >> URL: http://www.airtime.co.uk/forte/piano.htm | To Your Neighbour >> The UK PIano Page | >> pgp key on request | HAVE YOUR PIANO TUNED >> >> > > -- Barrie Heaton | Be Environmentally Friendly URL: http://www.airtime.co.uk/forte/piano.htm | To Your Neighbour The UK PIano Page | pgp key on request | HAVE YOUR PIANO TUNED
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