Greg - How is he coping during this period of strategizing? It seems like this becomes a de facto trial. James Schmit - can you identify some of those cutting edge techniques you referred to? David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 03:25 PM 1/11/2013, you wrote: >Wim, a follow up here, as I see my original to you reply didn't go >to CAUT. This is a Cable grand, near 6'. The customer knows (we've >had a conversation) it really isn't worth rebuilding completely, and >so until he works through the nightmare of logistics that he may >face if he decides to keep it and try to "treat" it instead, that >sort of ends the conversation, I guess. >Thanks for yours, and everyone's help and input! >Greg > > >On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM, ><<mailto:tnrwim at aol.com>tnrwim at aol.com> wrote: >Greg. Would you mind telling us the name of the piano? Is it worth >it to completely rebuild, new finish, new strings, etc. new action? > >Wim > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jan 10, 2013, at 3:06 PM, "Gregory J. Granoff" ><<mailto:Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu>Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> wrote: > >>I don't think you missed anything, but I think what I failed to >>make clear is that he really likes this piano--though it is a >>fairly indifferent and generic late 20's 5' 9-ish grand that had an >>action rebuild only a few years ago. Thus, though money is indeed >>not really the issue, there remained a desire to see if a proven >>route to decontaminating the piano was available that didn't >>involve rebuilding. My (and his) interest was in knowing if, >>specifically, a reliable method for doing this existed, and what it >>would be, and did anyone have experience with this. I am not under >>the impression that the piano itself is suspected to be the actual >>source of the problem, but rather being in the same environment, >>thoroughness of remediation demands that something be done with >>everything in the home that could be affected--whether actually needed or not. >> >> He will undoubtedly not decide what to do until some >> information/recommendation from me is forthcoming, though, >> again, if I say, "buy another piano, because that's the easiest >> route", (and that seems like it might be the emerging consensus) >> he's likely to consent, because, of course, that option was always >> there. But I agreed to find out what the CAUT community at large >> knew, and everyone's take on it was of value to me, whether they >> thought they were addressing the central issue or not. In fact, >> for me, sometimes misunderstandings can generate new views on the >> proceedings that shed light where not originally expected. >> >>I agree that knowing what it would cost to get a professional to >>assess and treat (if possible) the instrument would be of great >>interest. An ozone tent was mentioned, and I'm going to follow >>that up a bit out of curiosity and see what I can turn up. I'll >>let the list know if anything comes of it. >> >>He mentioned to me the idea of selling it to a friend who knows >>exactly what's going on, has been in his house a lot and has no >>symptoms, and wants a piano. A scenario like this could skirt the >>ethics issues you bring up quite easily, and might be the only >>recourse if the legal/ethical problems of trying to avoid outright >>destruction of the piano became too weighty. >> >>Greg >> >> >>On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 3:06 PM, David Skolnik >><<mailto:davidskolnik at optonline.net>davidskolnik at optonline.net> wrote: >>Sorry if I'm missing something. If money is, as they say, 'no >>object', then let him get another piano, or another house, >>whatever. If money is 'an object', then the question is, what is >>the most efficacious way of determining if the piano is >>contributing to his problem? Either remove the piano, temporarily >>(he could rent something if need be), or wrap it. However, you say: >> >>> I suspect he's decided that the piano will either be treated in >>> some tried and proven way, or be rebuilt or replaced >> >>So if he's already decided what he wants to do, it becomes an issue >>of little further interest. It would be of interest to know how >>much it would cost to have a certified individual determine the >>piano's toxicity, and if any, how much it would cost to remediate >>(and how it would be done). For that matter, it would of more than >>passing interest to contemplate the ethics of disposing of such an >>instrument. Can you sell it without disclosing your reason? If it >>is contaminated, can you donate it? etc. >> >>It reminds me of my experience (which I've cited before) dealing >>with a piano that had been treated with (what turned out to be) >>Paris Green, a substance containing arsenic, which had been used, >>especially in the south, to control insects. Once officially >>identified (by village fire department), the legitimate (legal) >>recourse asserted itself. A company was brought in to inspect, and >>subsequently advised removing (and disposing of) the piano, a step >>which, frankly, had I continued to be involved in the process, I >>would have at the very least, challenged. I retain some degree of skepticism. >> >>My last word: whatever. >> >>David Skolnik >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 02:26 PM 1/10/2013, you wrote: >>>David, >>>You're correct, there was no mention of water damage. The house >>>is fine from that perspective, as far as anyone knows. As I said >>>to James in my response to him, the issue is probably the Humboldt >>>climate well known for dampness, especially along the coast where >>>we are. He is a musician, records, gigs, and uses the piano >>>frequently, though as he is more a wind player and guitarist, and >>>associates are more likely to use the piano than he in actual >>>rehearsals and so forth. >>>All your suggestions are useful, but I suspect moving the piano to >>>a different local in the house probably isn't going to fly, since >>>I suspect he's decided that the piano will either be treated in >>>some tried and proven way, or be rebuilt or replaced. No one has >>>any idea whether the piano is even infected; they just want to >>>cover all the bases in >>>the most direct way possible. I'm getting the feeling--as others >>>have suggested--that the simplest thing is to replace it, period. >>>I'm going to check in with this guy very soon about what I'm >>>learning here. >>> >>>I'm not familiar with the ozone tent Andrew speaks of. Any idea >>>what it is/does? Andrew? >>> >>>Thanks very much for everyone's help! >>>Greg >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:52 AM, David Skolnik >>><<mailto:davidskolnik at optonline.net> davidskolnik at optonline.net> wrote: >>>Greg, James - >>>Without getting into technical details beyond my immediate >>>knowledge, the data seems somewhat incomplete. I may have missed >>>something, but I don't understand the basis for James assumption >>>that the piano suffered water damage. It would be interesting to >>>know the suspected cause of the mold, i.e. a water leak, flooding, >>>Humbolt climate? Does he use the piano? Can the piano be moved >>>to a part of the house that he doesn't frequent, to see if that >>>makes a difference? If his condition suddenly improves, that >>>would narrow it down a bit. I would be wary of going immediately >>>the off-site 'expert evaluation' route, partly for the initial >>>expense (it can't be cheap, unless the wife does it herself or >>>knows someone), and then question of what to do, based upon the >>>assessment results. I suppose you could move it off-site to do a >>>thorough cleaning (or take it out in the back on a sunny day - >>>whenever that might be- and blow it out). >>> >>>It would be interesting to see (photo) how the house has been >>>cleansed without eliminating all elements of comfort. >>>David Skolnik >>> >>>At 11:32 AM 1/10/2013, you wrote: >>>>Greg, >>>> Of all the things that are be almost impossible to remove >>>> from a piano without rebuilding, mildew and mold are at the top >>>> of the list. It is more difficult then smoke and smoke >>>> odor There simply is not a way to clean it out without removing >>>> and replacing parts. You have a living organism that is not just >>>> sitting there, is is growing If I were in your place I wold >>>> first have the piano removed to a water damage restoration >>>> specialist and let is sit in an uncontaminated area for >>>> evaluation and then decide the next step from there. Most of >>>> the time you can see it but not always. Getting the input from >>>> some folks that deal with it on a regular basis is helpful. >>>>Yours >>>>James Schmitt >>>>On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Gregory J. Granoff wrote: >>>> >>>>>David, >>>>>I'm not sure what the story is on discovery there, but his wife >>>>>is a long time professional allergist, and they have come quite >>>>>a distance already in getting rid of all furniture and permeable >>>>>surfaces in the house (carpeting, etc.), cleaning, painting, >>>>>etc., with no turning back. I'm not going to say anything about >>>>>finding what you tend to look for, if you know what I mean; but >>>>>he did develop some pretty unpleasant symptoms when he's in his >>>>>house--difficulty regulating body temp, feelings of mild atrophy >>>>>in extremities, and mental cloudiness, among others, according to him. >>>>>The question really is now: what do with the piano. He's >>>>>aware--assuming that all this other stuff is correct-- that the >>>>>piano might need to be replaced entirely, so it isn't a question >>>>>of that being do-able if necessary. >>>>>He just wants to know if that route is the only choice, and if >>>>>it isn't, what are the realistic options for the existing piano? >>>>>Thanks, >>>>>Greg >>>>> >>>>>On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:08 AM, David Skolnik >>>>><<mailto:davidskolnik at optonline.net> davidskolnik at optonline.net> wrote: >>>>>Greg - >>>>>How was the original mold assessment made? How is the rest of >>>>>his house being treated? Did a reliable expert locate the >>>>>primary source, and reason for its presence? >>>>>David Skolnik >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>At 12:26 PM 1/8/2013, you wrote: >>>>>>Hello list, >>>>>>I'm looking for info regarding a customer who has been >>>>>>diagnosed with a serious allergy to poisonous mold spores that >>>>>>have apparently infected his house. He asked me whether there >>>>>>was any way to treat permeable surfaces such as felt, >>>>>>unfinished wood, etc. in pianos for the spores which can lodge >>>>>>there that didn't involve replacing everything. I have no >>>>>>experience with this issue at all. Anybody know? >>>>>>Thanks so much in advance for any advice and knowledge! >>>>>>Greg Granoff >>>>>>Humboldt State University >>>>>>No virus found in this message. >>>>>>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com/>www.avg.com >>>>>>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6016 - Release Date: 01/07/13 >> >>No virus found in this message. >>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com >>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6021 - Release Date: 01/09/13 >> >> >>No virus found in this message. >>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com >>Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6023 - Release Date: 01/10/13 >> > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com >Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2638/6029 - Release Date: 01/12/13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20130113/342e21a0/attachment.htm>
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