It still might be worth trying some to see whether a good lube like ProTek or powdered teflon would prevent squeaks. And while we're speculating about it, what about other tough hides, like alligator? -- Mark Schecter On Sep 1, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Dale Erwin <erwinspiano at aol.com> wrote: > It squeaks on knuckles. Ask young Chnag > > > Dale S. Erwin > www.Erwinspiano.com > 209-577-8397 > 209-985-0990 > Ronsen hammers--R&D > "-pre-hung hammers" > Sitka- Soundboard- Supplies > Panels & Ribstock > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: prescottpiano <prescottpiano at juno.com> > To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 12:35 pm > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings > > I can't find in the archives but it seems to me I once heard of using kangaroo leather as it was of uniform thickness. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > -----Original message----- > From: Dale Erwin <erwinspiano at aol.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 18:27:23 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings > > Kevein > For what its worth we have also been frustrated with the short life of cloth bushings in high use situations. I do have a set installed on a high use D at a local college.and they have held up with out incident ie squeaks etc. I set them up at as close to zero side play as I could get away with and it took a year for them to play in so that there was nominal clearance. In other words a perfect fit. Untill they got to this point though there was a comment about the friction when aggressive playing forced the key against the side of the pin. > They are more problematic to install. Trix is the bushing queen and she says its a headache. The issue is getting the right thickness of leather so fit come out just right. It is possible to shrink and iron felt but nos so with leather. > The upside is they hold up. Its important to put the slick or the smooth side against the pin. I can't recall which....at this moment.... which it is. > > > Dale S. Erwin > www.Erwinspiano.com > 209-577-8397 > 209-985-0990 > Ronsen hammers--R&D > "-pre-hung hammers" > Sitka- Soundboard- Supplies > Panels & Ribstock > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fortenberry, Kevin <kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> > To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:12 am > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings > > Roger and all, I have been enjoying this discussion about using leather > bushings. I am very interested in trying this on a few piano faculty pianos in > hopes that they will last LONGER. What I am getting from you so far is, install > only on balance rail as cloth on front is more quiet, and get leather from Forte > Piano in Canada since he has excellent quality in several different thicknesses. > I would assume hide glue. It also sounds like have a few different sizes on hand > would be good as the fit would be fairly critical. What about the final > fitting/sizing or if some come out inconsistent? Do the heated cauls help with > this? How about alchohol/water? > > Thanks for the help, Kevin Fortenberry, Texas Tech University > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of > caut-request at ptg.org > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:31 PM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 34, Issue 7 > > Send CAUT mailing list submissions to > caut at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > caut-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > caut-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: B????sendorfer question (Roger Jolly) > 2. Re: B????sendorfer question (Alan Eder) > 3. Read your message before it gets deleted! (Badoo) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:31:32 -0600 > From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20110829141325.022cc918 at mail.sasktel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > > Hi Alan, > I thought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my > faded memory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don't push > the caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with the top of > the button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3 mm. > You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking. > When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone to squeaks. > > The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the front rail with > cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll with leather BR > bushings the FR seems to also last longer. > > We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleased > with the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had to re > bush any of the leather converts, and a number of these pianos were done 5 > years ago. > > Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just my > experience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brush > to coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough for the > nap to lay down. > > The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidity swings. > > Regards Roger > > > At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: > >Hi Roger, > > > >Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin, > >eh? ? Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushing > >keys with leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hot > >animal hide glue? ? Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)?? > >If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. > > > >... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriate thickness of > >leather depends, as with cloth, on the difference between the size of the > >mortise and the size of the key pins (less whatever needs to be figured in > >for the glue line--and I imagine that leather will be less absorbent of > >glue than cloth, particularly if the glue is applied to the tanned side of > >the leather). > > > >Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And as > >it starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is with cloth)? > > > >Many thanks, > > > >Alan Eder > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> > >To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > >Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am > >Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > > > > > >Hi Alan, > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at Piano Forte he > >sells it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it with the nap > >towards the pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. No squeaky > >leather.? If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. > > > >Regards Roger > > > > > > > >At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: > >>Hi Ted, > >>I will be rebushing with leather. > >> > >>I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-time experience > >>for me. ?? Any tips you would be willing to share? > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Alan Eder > >> > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Edward Sambell <<mailto:esambell at yahoo.com>esambell at yahoo.com> > >>To: caut <<mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org> > >>Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am > >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > >> > >>Stan, > >> > >>I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were .135". > >>In fact I am doing one now, and it too has .135" on both rails. I will be > >>rebushing with leather. The keys are made by Herrberger Brooks (UK) but > >>this size seems to be common with European pianos. > >> > >>Regards, Ted Sambell > >> > >>From: Stan Kroeker <smkroeker at shaw.ca> > >>To: caut at ptg.org > >>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM > >>Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > >>Hello all, > >>Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague for > >>rebushing and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have been > >>measured accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs? > >>Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie! > >>Stan Kroeker, RPT > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20110829/e4c904e1/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:40:22 -0400 (EDT) > From: Alan Eder <reggaepass at aol.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > Message-ID: <8CE34AB63E831D2-146C-3F3BF at Webmail-m118.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Roger, > > > Thanks so much for your detailed response. Lots of very useful information. > > > Mucho appreciado! > > > Alan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> > To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 9:46 am > Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > > > > Hi Alan, > Ithought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my > fadedmemory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don'tpush the > caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with thetop of the > button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3mm. > You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking. > When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone tosqueaks. > > The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the frontrail with > cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll withleather BR bushings > the FR seems to also last longer. > > We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleasedwith > the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had tore bush any of > the leather converts, and a number of these pianos weredone 5 years ago. > > Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just > myexperience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brushto > coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough forthe nap to > lay down. > > The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidityswings. > > Regards Roger > > > At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin,eh? ? > Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushingkeys with > leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hotanimal hide glue? ? > Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)?? > > If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. > > > ... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriatethickness of leather > depends, as with cloth, on the difference betweenthe size of the mortise and the > size of the key pins (less whatever needsto be figured in for the glue line--and > I imagine that leather will beless absorbent of glue than cloth, particularly if > the glue is applied tothe tanned side of the leather). > > Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And asit > starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is withcloth)? > > Many thanks, > > Alan Eder > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> > To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am > Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > > > Hi Alan, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at PianoForte he sells > it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it withthe nap towards the > pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. Nosqueaky leather.? If my memory > serves me correctly I use1.1mm. > > Regards Roger > > > > At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: > > Hi Ted, > I will be rebushing with leather. > > > I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-timeexperience for me. > ?? Any tips you would be willing to share? > > Thanks, > > Alan Eder > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Sambell<esambell at yahoo.com> > To: caut <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am > Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > > Stan, > > I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were.135". In fact I > am doing one now, and it too has .135" on bothrails. I will be rebushing with > leather. The keys are made by HerrbergerBrooks (UK) but this size seems to be > common with Europeanpianos. > > Regards, Ted Sambell > > > From: Stan Kroeker<smkroeker at shaw.ca> > To: caut at ptg.org > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM > Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > Hello all, > > Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague forrebushing > and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have beenmeasured > accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs? > > Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie! > > Stan Kroeker, RPT > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20110829/680115dd/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 04:23:55 +0000 > From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: [CAUT] Read your message before it gets deleted! > Message-ID: <20110830043030.B558CF1E14 at ptg.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Read your message left by Timur before it gets deleted! > > To read your message, follow this link: > http://eu1.badoo.com/0252233004/in/8IZihvFtQ0M/?lang_id=3&m=65&mid=4e5c65c70000000000030000bf8ac2d6 > > Some more patiently waiting folks: > Best (Nong Khaem, Thailand) > Bumprincess (Krung Thep Maha Nakhon, Thailand) > Yu (Krung Thep Maha Nakhon, Thailand) > > http://eu1.badoo.com/0252233004/in/8IZihvFtQ0M/?lang_id=3&m=65&mid=4e5c65c70000000000030000bf8ac2d6 > > If clicking the links in this message does not work, copy and paste them into > the address bar of your browser. > > This email is part of our delivery procedure for the message sent by Timur. If > you have received this email by mistake, please ignore it. The message will be > deleted soon. > > Have fun! > The Badoo Team > > You have received this email, because a Badoo member has left a message for you > on Badoo. This is a post-only mailing. Replies to this message are not monitored > or answered. 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