Thanks Dale, and "Prescott Piano". I'm inclined to take the advice of Trix--sure don't want any more headaches!! Sure interesting to really consider this. I think I will experiment with maybe one of our old practice pianos. We will see. Where would I be able to look at some Kangaroo leather? My stepson/daughter-in-law live in New Zealand--wonder if they have Kangaroos there also? Food for thought. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of caut-request at ptg.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:35 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 35, Issue 3 Send CAUT mailing list submissions to caut at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to caut-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at caut-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Leather Bushings (prescottpiano at juno.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 12:28:04 -0700 From: "prescottpiano at juno.com"<prescottpiano at juno.com> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings Message-ID: <984d163a-f66d-4552-ae41-aed12568ac8d at blur> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="Flowed"; DelSp="Yes" I can't find in the archives but it seems to me I once heard of using kangaroo leather as it was of uniform thickness. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone -----Original message----- From: Dale Erwin <erwinspiano at aol.com> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 18:27:23 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings Kevein For what its worth we have also been frustrated with the short life of cloth bushings in high use situations. I do have a set installed on a high use D at a local college.and they have held up with out incident ie squeaks etc. I set them up at as close to zero side play as I could get away with and it took a year for them to play in so that there was nominal clearance. In other words a perfect fit. Untill they got to this point though there was a comment about the friction when aggressive playing forced the key against the side of the pin. They are more problematic to install. Trix is the bushing queen and she says its a headache. The issue is getting the right thickness of leather so fit come out just right. It is possible to shrink and iron felt but nos so with leather. The upside is they hold up. Its important to put the slick or the smooth side against the pin. I can't recall which....at this moment.... which it is. Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com 209-577-8397 209-985-0990 Ronsen hammers--R&D "-pre-hung hammers" Sitka- Soundboard- Supplies Panels & Ribstock -----Original Message----- From: Fortenberry, Kevin <kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> To: caut <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:12 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings Roger and all, I have been enjoying this discussion about using leather bushings. I am very interested in trying this on a few piano faculty pianos in hopes that they will last LONGER. What I am getting from you so far is, install only on balance rail as cloth on front is more quiet, and get leather from Forte Piano in Canada since he has excellent quality in several different thicknesses. I would assume hide glue. It also sounds like have a few different sizes on hand would be good as the fit would be fairly critical. What about the final fitting/sizing or if some come out inconsistent? Do the heated cauls help with this? How about alchohol/water? Thanks for the help, Kevin Fortenberry, Texas Tech University -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of caut-request at ptg.org Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:31 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 34, Issue 7 Send CAUT mailing list submissions to caut at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to caut-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at caut-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: B????sendorfer question (Roger Jolly) 2. Re: B????sendorfer question (Alan Eder) 3. Read your message before it gets deleted! (Badoo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:31:32 -0600 From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20110829141325.022cc918 at mail.sasktel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Hi Alan, I thought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my faded memory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don't push the caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with the top of the button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3 mm. You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking. When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone to squeaks. The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the front rail with cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll with leather BR bushings the FR seems to also last longer. We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleased with the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had to re bush any of the leather converts, and a number of these pianos were done 5 years ago. Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just my experience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brush to coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough for the nap to lay down. The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidity swings. Regards Roger At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: >Hi Roger, > >Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin, >eh? ? Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushing >keys with leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hot >animal hide glue? ? Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)?? >If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. > >... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriate thickness of >leather depends, as with cloth, on the difference between the size of the >mortise and the size of the key pins (less whatever needs to be figured in >for the glue line--and I imagine that leather will be less absorbent of >glue than cloth, particularly if the glue is applied to the tanned side of >the leather). > >Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And as >it starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is with cloth)? > >Many thanks, > >Alan Eder > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> >To: caut <caut at ptg.org> >Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am >Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question > > >Hi Alan, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at Piano Forte he >sells it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it with the nap >towards the pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. No squeaky >leather.? If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. > >Regards Roger > > > >At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: >>Hi Ted, >>I will be rebushing with leather. >> >>I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-time experience >>for me. ?? Any tips you would be willing to share? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Alan Eder >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Edward Sambell <<mailto:esambell at yahoo.com>esambell at yahoo.com> >>To: caut <<mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org> >>Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question >> >>Stan, >> >>I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were .135". >>In fact I am doing one now, and it too has .135" on both rails. I will be >>rebushing with leather. The keys are made by Herrberger Brooks (UK) but >>this size seems to be common with European pianos. >> >>Regards, Ted Sambell >> >>From: Stan Kroeker <smkroeker at shaw.ca> >>To: caut at ptg.org >>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM >>Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question >>Hello all, >>Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague for >>rebushing and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have been >>measured accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs? >>Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie! >>Stan Kroeker, RPT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20110829/e4c904e1/attachment- 0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan Eder <reggaepass at aol.com> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Message-ID: <8CE34AB63E831D2-146C-3F3BF at Webmail-m118.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Roger, Thanks so much for your detailed response. Lots of very useful information. Mucho appreciado! Alan -----Original Message----- From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> To: caut <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 9:46 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Hi Alan, Ithought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my fadedmemory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don'tpush the caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with thetop of the button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3mm. You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking. When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone tosqueaks. The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the frontrail with cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll withleather BR bushings the FR seems to also last longer. We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleasedwith the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had tore bush any of the leather converts, and a number of these pianos weredone 5 years ago. Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just myexperience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brushto coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough forthe nap to lay down. The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidityswings. Regards Roger At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: Hi Roger, Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin,eh? ? Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushingkeys with leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hotanimal hide glue? ? Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)?? If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm. ... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriatethickness of leather depends, as with cloth, on the difference betweenthe size of the mortise and the size of the key pins (less whatever needsto be figured in for the glue line--and I imagine that leather will beless absorbent of glue than cloth, particularly if the glue is applied tothe tanned side of the leather). Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And asit starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is withcloth)? Many thanks, Alan Eder -----Original Message----- From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net> To: caut <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Hi Alan, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at PianoForte he sells it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it withthe nap towards the pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. Nosqueaky leather.? If my memory serves me correctly I use1.1mm. Regards Roger At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote: Hi Ted, I will be rebushing with leather. I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-timeexperience for me. ?? Any tips you would be willing to share? Thanks, Alan Eder -----Original Message----- From: Edward Sambell<esambell at yahoo.com> To: caut <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Stan, I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were.135". In fact I am doing one now, and it too has .135" on bothrails. I will be rebushing with leather. The keys are made by HerrbergerBrooks (UK) but this size seems to be common with Europeanpianos. Regards, Ted Sambell From: Stan Kroeker<smkroeker at shaw.ca> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question Hello all, Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague forrebushing and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have beenmeasured accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs? Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie! Stan Kroeker, RPT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20110829/680115dd/attachment- 0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 04:23:55 +0000 From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: [CAUT] Read your message before it gets deleted! 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