I received an inkling from William Hupfer of S&S in LA in the early sixties, his capability and memory were such that the markings were superfluous. Much that is brought out in this string on Hamburg voicing has been New York S&S procedure for some time . The marks I have seen used and use myself are on the key stop rail and consist of long and short for deep and shallow, diagonal for left, right and center-vertial, and top the rail for crown, front of the rail for shoulders. The rail is found occasionally to be not in the greatest shape and can be easily finished in shellac or lacquer and rubbed to accept chalk without again injuring the finish. This of course for the subsequent prelim voicing which needs gang messages with each pull of the action and thereafter most often a pull of the action for each one or two hammers. And don't forget the effect of loose hammers and centers on the tone quality. Greg Granoff my replacement at HSU was and is an excellent acquirement and caries concert prep to higher levels. Dan Gurnee HSU Retired, '89 On Mar 16, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Greg Granoff wrote: > Greg, > Wish I could--he had an interesting system of hieroglyphics (I think > someone > said) to indicate which string(s) of the unison needed attention, what > specifically needed doing, how much, etc. Again, except that his > markings > were of his own devising, nothing any of us couldn't work out for > ourselves. > Someone else might remember more specifically. They were largely a > series of > different short strokes, horizontal or vertical or both. Ted-- > Alan--?? > > Greg Granoff > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Greg > Newell > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:55 AM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > Thank you. More and more standard all the time. Good to know though. > How > about his markings? Can you post what he uses and why? Thanks again! > > Greg Newell > Greg's Piano Forté > www.gregspianoforte.com > 216-226-3791 (office) > 216-470-8634 (mobile) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of > Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:58 PM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > Greg, > He used a sharpened piece of chalk in one of those pocket chalk holder > thingies. > > Greg Granoff > HSU > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell at ameritech.net> > To: caut at ptg.org > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:44:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > Thank you Ted. I was wondering if the mute use was something > different than > what is the norm for testing and isolating. Seems pretty > straightforward and > standard. Thanks! Any guesses as to what implements of destruction > that he > used to mark the rail that was easily wiped off for the next run? > > Greg Newell > Greg's Piano Forté > www.gregspianoforte.com > 216-226-3791 (office) > 216-470-8634 (mobile) > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of > Kidwell, Ted W > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:19 PM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > Ulrich played very rapid mf chromatic runs to test the voicing. When > a note > stuck out to his ear he used the split felt mute for isolating > individual > strings and listening. He was able to do this remarkably quickly. He > would > then write one of his hieroglyphics on the key upstop rail. These > noted > which part of the hammer to needle and how much. For every pass he > would > wipe off the rail and start fresh. > > You could try using this mute for tuning but my guess is it will pop > out > with a strong test blow. > > Ted Kidwell, RPT > California State University, Sacramento > Capistrano Hall, rm. 153 > 6000 J Street > Sacramento, CA 95819-6015 > 916.278.6737 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of David > Ilvedson > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:08 PM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > I thought he used it for checking individual string voicing issues, > so you > could check the middle string without using another single mute. > I'm going > to try it. I'm not sure if it would be helpful for just tuning but > I'll > give it a try. > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- > From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell at ameritech.net> > To: caut at ptg.org > Received: 3/12/2010 3:55:10 PM > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > >> I, for one, would be very interested in his marking method. How is >> this > mute >> used? > >> > >> Greg Newell > >> Greg's Piano Forté > >> www.gregspianoforte.com > >> 216-226-3791 (office) > >> 216-470-8634 (mobile) > >> > >> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of > McCoy, >> Alan >> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:57 PM >> To: CAUTlist >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >> > >> Here's a pic of the mutes. > >> I'd bet that he got the diamond microfinishing paper (or film) that >> he was >> using from Hamburg, as he has many of his tools. That stuff is >> expensive. > It >> is available from MSC and McMaster Carr, if you want to buy it by >> the 50 or >> 100 sheets. The stuff from Jurgen is aluminum oxide - 30, 60, 100 >> micron I >> think. Auto Finishing supply stores carry very fine paper and maybe >> have >> some of the film-backed stuff too. > >> Lee Valley has some good stuff that I use for sharpening and >> reshaping. I >> prefer the aluminum oxide belts (C and D). I just cut the belts >> into strips >> of the right width and length. >> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2 >> <http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48040&cat=1,43072> >> &p=48040&cat=1,43072 > >> I sat through both days of Ulrich's class, as did a handful of >> others. >> Greg's report was excellent. Each piano presented different >> problems. His >> assessment of each piano was done very quickly and mostly before the > classes >> started. But these assessments were critical to what was done. The >> first >> piano had very thin tone in the top three octaves and so he did a >> lot of >> 3-needle voicing in the staple areas to give them more "texture" as >> he >> called it (I'd probably have called it "body", same thing I think). >> It was >> also very uneven with a lot of stringy noise for which he used his >> favorite >> 5-needle tool up close to the strike point and then a whole lot of >> shallow, >> single-string crown voicing also using the 5-needle tool. The >> second piano >> had some voicing issues too (duh) but not nearly as much as the >> first one. >> But the second piano did have tight balance rail holes. He used a >> chucking >> reamer for those (like in Fred Sturm's article a year or so ago). A >> systematic approach but one that is driven by the original >> assessment so >> that each piano gets thorough, but individual, treatment. > >> He has a very detailed marking system for voicing. I wrote it down >> and will >> share it if there is interest. Very intuitive and useful. > >> Like Greg said, this was not revolutionary stuff. But it was very > systematic >> and thorough. He was very clear though in that he knows Hamburg S&S >> very >> very well, but he doesn't know other brands or verticals much at >> all. If > you >> ever have a chance to watch him work, take advantage of it. He is >> very >> straight-forward and approachable. And he is very Germanic (as he >> jokingly >> referred to himself) in his approach. > >> Alan > > >> -- Alan McCoy, RPT >> Eastern Washington University >> amccoy at ewu.edu >> 509-359-4627 (message Pacific time) >> 509-999-9512 (cell Pacific time) > > > >> _____ > >> From: Greg Granoff <Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> >> Reply-To: CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> >> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:21:02 -0800 >> To: David Ilvedson <ilvey at sbcglobal.net>, CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >> Actually, I'd say that "art work" was a pretty darn good >> approximation of >> the mutes attached together.... He used felt mutes, BTW..... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >> Of David >> Ilvedson >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:18 PM >> To: caut at ptg.org; ilvey at sbcglobal.net >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >> My art work of VV wasn't how I understood the tip...sorry > >> David Ilvedson, RPT >> Pacifica, CA 94044 > >> ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >> From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> >> To: caut at ptg.org >> Received: 3/10/2010 9:14:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > >>> I liked Steve Brady's bedding technique where the end glides were >>> done >> last...but I'll >>> give his way a try this Saturday... >>> Very good ideas, especially the fallboard and keyslip for let-off/ >>> drop. >> I'm assuming >>> he set samples in the piano...he set 2 felt mutes side by >>> side...VV and >> glued the top >>> parts together? Great tips...I'm going to try them all... > >>> David Ilvedson, RPT >>> Pacifica, CA 94044 > >>> ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >>> From: "Greg Granoff" <Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> >>> To: caut at ptg.org >>> Received: 3/10/2010 1:42:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > > >>>> Thanks Ted for the grit series correction--I had a feeling I'd >>>> missed >>>> something..... >>>> You might remember that he also said he never lubes balance rail >>>> pins >> after >>>> cleaning--doesn't want any residues in the balance rail hole. He >>>> does >> lube >>>> front rail pins though. >>>> Nice job of describing his piano-top hammer line, let off and drop >>>> adjustment technique....I almost forgot about the key slip on top >>>> of the >>>> flanges. Speak up if you remember anything else. > >>>> Greg > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On >>>> Behalf Of >>>> Kidwell, Ted W >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:56 PM >>>> To: caut at ptg.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >>>> Greg is doing a great job of describing this daylong concert >>>> prep. Just >> one >>>> thing- for hammer shaping he started with an 80 grit strip and >>>> spent the >>>> most time with that getting the shape just right. Then he jumped >>>> up to > 320 >>>> grit and went from there. > >>>> There were a few other things that struck me in the demo. > >>>> 1. He very thoroughly cleans the key pins with a cotton cloth >>>> wetted with >>>> what he called "methylated alcohol". I took that to mean denatured >> alcohol. >>>> He used a shoeshine motion. >>>> 2. He stuck a strip of newspaper under the end glide bolts and >>>> clamped >> down >>>> the ends of the key frame. He adjusted the bolts so the paper >>>> slides out >>>> with a little resistance but does not tear. To check the other >>>> bolts he >>>> lifts and knocks at the same time and talked about how easy it is >>>> to get >>>> fooled using other tests. >>>> 3. He put the action on top of the piano and set the fallboard up >>>> behind >> it >>>> resting on its hinge side. He set the keyslip on top of the hammer >> flanges. >>>> Now he had a black foreground and background and white hammers >>>> coming up >> in >>>> between. He used this set up for hammerline, and fine tuning the >>>> letoff >> and >>>> drop. Very clear and easy to see slight differences. >>>> 4. He glued two felt mutes together side to side to form a split >>>> mute. He >>>> uses this during voicing to very quickly isolate any one string >>>> of a >>>> trichord. > >>>> Great class. > > > > >>>> Ted Kidwell, RPT >>>> California State University, Sacramento >>>> Capistrano Hall, rm. 153 >>>> 6000 J Street >>>> Sacramento, CA 95819-6015 >>>> 916.278.6737 >>>> >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On >>>> Behalf Of > Greg >>>> Granoff >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:02 AM >>>> To: caut at ptg.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >>>> He uses teflon tape backed strips of diamond grit paper only just >>>> as wide >> as >>>> an individual hammer. >>>> He begins with around 320 I think he said, graduates to maybe 600 >>>> if he >>>> feels it necessary, and finishes off with 1200. Obviously, the >>>> procedure >>>> might eliminate the coarsest grit if it wasn't necessary to >>>> actually >> reshape >>>> significantly. In the class, he began by making a very small >>>> change in > the >>>> shape of the hammer, eliminating a slight bulge in the shoulders >>>> facing >> the >>>> keyboard that made a slightly asymmetrical look. He holds the strip >> against >>>> the hammer shoulder to index the strip's horizontal angle for a >>>> straight >>>> striking point. Later, if he is fine mating hammers to strings, >>>> he has >> even >>>> narrower strips to make the change he needs on one string >>>> position at a >>>> time. He finds these problems with the method of lifting the >>>> hammer/shank >> to >>>> the string with a hook, and plucking with a tapered hammer shank. >>>> He says >> he >>>> never files through the strings for mating, since he is fanatical >>>> about >>>> keeping the correct shape on the "nose" of the hammer, as he >>>> called it, >> and >>>> his strip method lets him do this. > >>>> Greg > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On >>>> Behalf Of > Fred >>>> Sturm >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM >>>> To: caut at ptg.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters > >>>> On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Greg Granoff wrote: > >>>>> For me, it was extremely useful to see his hammer filing technique >>>>> (he never >>>>> gang-files) and the materials he used, and he kept up a running >>>>> commentary >>>>> as he worked, crisply answering questions in a careful but >>>>> efficient >>>>> Germanic way without ever losing momentum. > > >>>> How does he file? Paddle? Strip? >>>> Regards, >>>> Fred Sturm >>>> University of New Mexico >>>> fssturm at unm.edu > > > >
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