I was thinking you could use the keybutton to represent the nose/crown of the hammer. The key side of the keybutton would be the player's side of the hammer, etc. Then, perhaps 2 marks like I I might mean file at left and right string mark area. Dots could represent needling. The actual keybutton could be the crown...either side of the bushing=front and back of the crown. I would like to hear other's marking systems for voicing...or regulation... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Greg Granoff" <Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Received: 3/16/2010 9:03:36 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >Greg, >Wish I could--he had an interesting system of hieroglyphics (I think someone >said) to indicate which string(s) of the unison needed attention, what >specifically needed doing, how much, etc. Again, except that his markings >were of his own devising, nothing any of us couldn't work out for ourselves. >Someone else might remember more specifically. They were largely a series of >different short strokes, horizontal or vertical or both. Ted--Alan--?? >Greg Granoff >-----Original Message----- >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Greg >Newell >Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:55 AM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >Thank you. More and more standard all the time. Good to know though. How >about his markings? Can you post what he uses and why? Thanks again! >Greg Newell >Greg's Piano Forté >www.gregspianoforte.com >216-226-3791 (office) >216-470-8634 (mobile) >-----Original Message----- >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:58 PM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >Greg, >He used a sharpened piece of chalk in one of those pocket chalk holder >thingies. >Greg Granoff >HSU >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell at ameritech.net> >To: caut at ptg.org >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:44:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >Thank you Ted. I was wondering if the mute use was something different than >what is the norm for testing and isolating. Seems pretty straightforward and >standard. Thanks! Any guesses as to what implements of destruction that he >used to mark the rail that was easily wiped off for the next run? >Greg Newell >Greg's Piano Forté >www.gregspianoforte.com >216-226-3791 (office) >216-470-8634 (mobile) >-----Original Message----- >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Kidwell, Ted W >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:19 PM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >Ulrich played very rapid mf chromatic runs to test the voicing. When a note >stuck out to his ear he used the split felt mute for isolating individual >strings and listening. He was able to do this remarkably quickly. He would >then write one of his hieroglyphics on the key upstop rail. These noted >which part of the hammer to needle and how much. For every pass he would >wipe off the rail and start fresh. >You could try using this mute for tuning but my guess is it will pop out >with a strong test blow. >Ted Kidwell, RPT >California State University, Sacramento >Capistrano Hall, rm. 153 >6000 J Street >Sacramento, CA 95819-6015 >916.278.6737 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David >Ilvedson >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:08 PM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >I thought he used it for checking individual string voicing issues, so you >could check the middle string without using another single mute. I'm going >to try it. I'm not sure if it would be helpful for just tuning but I'll >give it a try. >David Ilvedson, RPT >Pacifica, CA 94044 >----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell at ameritech.net> >To: caut at ptg.org >Received: 3/12/2010 3:55:10 PM >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>I, for one, would be very interested in his marking method. How is this >mute >>used? >> >>Greg Newell >>Greg's Piano Forté >>www.gregspianoforte.com >>216-226-3791 (office) >>216-470-8634 (mobile) >> >>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >McCoy, >>Alan >>Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:57 PM >>To: CAUTlist >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >> >>Here's a pic of the mutes. >>I'd bet that he got the diamond microfinishing paper (or film) that he was >>using from Hamburg, as he has many of his tools. That stuff is expensive. >It >>is available from MSC and McMaster Carr, if you want to buy it by the 50 or >>100 sheets. The stuff from Jurgen is aluminum oxide - 30, 60, 100 micron I >>think. Auto Finishing supply stores carry very fine paper and maybe have >>some of the film-backed stuff too. >>Lee Valley has some good stuff that I use for sharpening and reshaping. I >>prefer the aluminum oxide belts (C and D). I just cut the belts into strips >>of the right width and length. >>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2 >><http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48040&cat=1,43072> >>&p=48040&cat=1,43072 >>I sat through both days of Ulrich's class, as did a handful of others. >>Greg's report was excellent. Each piano presented different problems. His >>assessment of each piano was done very quickly and mostly before the >classes >>started. But these assessments were critical to what was done. The first >>piano had very thin tone in the top three octaves and so he did a lot of >>3-needle voicing in the staple areas to give them more "texture" as he >>called it (I'd probably have called it "body", same thing I think). It was >>also very uneven with a lot of stringy noise for which he used his favorite >>5-needle tool up close to the strike point and then a whole lot of shallow, >>single-string crown voicing also using the 5-needle tool. The second piano >>had some voicing issues too (duh) but not nearly as much as the first one. >>But the second piano did have tight balance rail holes. He used a chucking >>reamer for those (like in Fred Sturm's article a year or so ago). A >>systematic approach but one that is driven by the original assessment so >>that each piano gets thorough, but individual, treatment. >>He has a very detailed marking system for voicing. I wrote it down and will >>share it if there is interest. Very intuitive and useful. >>Like Greg said, this was not revolutionary stuff. But it was very >systematic >>and thorough. He was very clear though in that he knows Hamburg S&S very >>very well, but he doesn't know other brands or verticals much at all. If >you >>ever have a chance to watch him work, take advantage of it. He is very >>straight-forward and approachable. And he is very Germanic (as he jokingly >>referred to himself) in his approach. >>Alan >>-- Alan McCoy, RPT >>Eastern Washington University >>amccoy at ewu.edu >>509-359-4627 (message Pacific time) >>509-999-9512 (cell Pacific time) >> _____ >>From: Greg Granoff <Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> >>Reply-To: CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> >>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:21:02 -0800 >>To: David Ilvedson <ilvey at sbcglobal.net>, CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>Actually, I'd say that "art work" was a pretty darn good approximation of >>the mutes attached together.... He used felt mutes, BTW..... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David >>Ilvedson >>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:18 PM >>To: caut at ptg.org; ilvey at sbcglobal.net >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>My art work of VV wasn't how I understood the tip...sorry >>David Ilvedson, RPT >>Pacifica, CA 94044 >>----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >>From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> >>To: caut at ptg.org >>Received: 3/10/2010 9:14:54 PM >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>>I liked Steve Brady's bedding technique where the end glides were done >>last...but I'll >>>give his way a try this Saturday... >>>Very good ideas, especially the fallboard and keyslip for let-off/drop. >>I'm assuming >>>he set samples in the piano...he set 2 felt mutes side by side...VV and >>glued the top >>>parts together? Great tips...I'm going to try them all... >>>David Ilvedson, RPT >>>Pacifica, CA 94044 >>>----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >>>From: "Greg Granoff" <Gregory.Granoff at humboldt.edu> >>>To: caut at ptg.org >>>Received: 3/10/2010 1:42:42 PM >>>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>>>Thanks Ted for the grit series correction--I had a feeling I'd missed >>>>something..... >>>>You might remember that he also said he never lubes balance rail pins >>after >>>>cleaning--doesn't want any residues in the balance rail hole. He does >>lube >>>>front rail pins though. >>>>Nice job of describing his piano-top hammer line, let off and drop >>>>adjustment technique....I almost forgot about the key slip on top of the >>>>flanges. Speak up if you remember anything else. >>>>Greg >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Kidwell, Ted W >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:56 PM >>>>To: caut at ptg.org >>>>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>>>Greg is doing a great job of describing this daylong concert prep. Just >>one >>>>thing- for hammer shaping he started with an 80 grit strip and spent the >>>>most time with that getting the shape just right. Then he jumped up to >320 >>>>grit and went from there. >>>>There were a few other things that struck me in the demo. >>>>1. He very thoroughly cleans the key pins with a cotton cloth wetted with >>>>what he called "methylated alcohol". I took that to mean denatured >>alcohol. >>>>He used a shoeshine motion. >>>>2. He stuck a strip of newspaper under the end glide bolts and clamped >>down >>>>the ends of the key frame. He adjusted the bolts so the paper slides out >>>>with a little resistance but does not tear. To check the other bolts he >>>>lifts and knocks at the same time and talked about how easy it is to get >>>>fooled using other tests. >>>>3. He put the action on top of the piano and set the fallboard up behind >>it >>>>resting on its hinge side. He set the keyslip on top of the hammer >>flanges. >>>>Now he had a black foreground and background and white hammers coming up >>in >>>>between. He used this set up for hammerline, and fine tuning the letoff >>and >>>>drop. Very clear and easy to see slight differences. >>>>4. He glued two felt mutes together side to side to form a split mute. He >>>>uses this during voicing to very quickly isolate any one string of a >>>>trichord. >>>>Great class. >>>>Ted Kidwell, RPT >>>>California State University, Sacramento >>>>Capistrano Hall, rm. 153 >>>>6000 J Street >>>>Sacramento, CA 95819-6015 >>>>916.278.6737 >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Greg >>>>Granoff >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:02 AM >>>>To: caut at ptg.org >>>>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>>>He uses teflon tape backed strips of diamond grit paper only just as wide >>as >>>>an individual hammer. >>>>He begins with around 320 I think he said, graduates to maybe 600 if he >>>>feels it necessary, and finishes off with 1200. Obviously, the procedure >>>>might eliminate the coarsest grit if it wasn't necessary to actually >>reshape >>>>significantly. In the class, he began by making a very small change in >the >>>>shape of the hammer, eliminating a slight bulge in the shoulders facing >>the >>>>keyboard that made a slightly asymmetrical look. He holds the strip >>against >>>>the hammer shoulder to index the strip's horizontal angle for a straight >>>>striking point. Later, if he is fine mating hammers to strings, he has >>even >>>>narrower strips to make the change he needs on one string position at a >>>>time. He finds these problems with the method of lifting the hammer/shank >>to >>>>the string with a hook, and plucking with a tapered hammer shank. He says >>he >>>>never files through the strings for mating, since he is fanatical about >>>>keeping the correct shape on the "nose" of the hammer, as he called it, >>and >>>>his strip method lets him do this. >>>>Greg >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Fred >>>>Sturm >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM >>>>To: caut at ptg.org >>>>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Mythbusters >>>>On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Greg Granoff wrote: >>>>> For me, it was extremely useful to see his hammer filing technique >>>>> (he never >>>>> gang-files) and the materials he used, and he kept up a running >>>>> commentary >>>>> as he worked, crisply answering questions in a careful but efficient >>>>> Germanic way without ever losing momentum. >>>>How does he file? Paddle? Strip? >>>>Regards, >>>>Fred Sturm >>>>University of New Mexico >>>>fssturm at unm.edu
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