[CAUT] Non-440 tuning request

[Laurence Libin]

How many musicians or tuners can hear the difference of plus or minus one Hz around a' or higher, without reference to a signal tone? Has anyone tested this sensitivity? I'm not implying it doesn't matter to some players and singers, but wonder how much and to whom. As had been noted, winds and strings normally fluctuate one Hz or more during performance (not least in vibrato). No international standard (435, 440, etc.) has ever been universally adopted, and it seems to me that a precise 440 or 441 tuning sustained throughout a performance is as much a theorecital ideal as is perfectly equal temperament.
Laurence
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Solliday 
  To: Jeff Tanner ; caut at ptg.org 
  Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [CAUT] Non-440 tuning request


  Steinway currently recommends that all concert instruments be tuned to 441 so that 440 or 442 or for that matter 441 can be accomodated. Carnegie Hall is 442 or 444 depending on who you talk to, NY Phil Chamber Players with Stanley Drucker 442 (but he was very happy at 441 recently), Lincoln Center Chamber Players 442, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra 441, and on and on. What ever happened to international treaties?
  Chris Solliday, RPT
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jeff Tanner 
    To: College and University Technicians 
    Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:02 PM
    Subject: [CAUT] Non-440 tuning request


    Hi,
    This week, I was asked by a chamber group of some sort to tune to 441. I was told the reason was that the clarinet pushes sharp as it warms up, and for that reason, they routinely play at 441 or 442. It was a bit of a pitch raise. The piano hadn't been tuned since this same group performed in October when the relative humidity was in the 70s. This week, it was 28%. It had not been tuned before their rehearsal the day of the performance. (Oddly, they had really only complained of the tuning of F21 -- yes, the lowest tenor note on a S&S D, and it was about 12 or 16 cents low, beating pretty wildly against F33, which was maybe 6 cents low) I hemmed and hawed a bit and tried to explain about humidity and stability, but they were uncaring about the piano - just the clarinet. I tuned the piano as requested, but I'm really struggling with the credibility of the request.

    First, if they start at 441 and everything goes sharp from there, why not start at 442? If that's not high enough, why not 443 or 445? What's to stop the upward progression? I did not think to ask whether the performers tuned to an offstage pitch source, or tuned to the piano once on stage. But, if they're tuning to the piano once on stage, what is there to stop the upward push of the pitch, no matter where the piano is tuned? And, during which part of the performance is it more important for the clarinet to be in tune with the piano? If the clarinet pitch moves around, what does it matter where you start, if you're not going to end up together anyway? Or, is it more important to start out of tune, so you can end up there?  Whose responsibility is it to stay in tune?

    Second (and I'm playing stupid here), I distinctly remember that clarinets have tuning adjustments. They can be retuned a heck of a lot faster than pianos. Doesn't it seem to be the responsibility of the player who plays the non-fixed pitch instrument to keep in tune with the fixed-pitch ones?  Can this be the result of spending hours and hours of time rehearsing alone? As a singer, I sometimes push gently sharp without a reference, just staying "on top of the pitch". The piano helps keep me in line. Why is it the responsibility of the piano to change pitch for the clarinet?

    Third, why does the clarinet go sharp as it warms up? Don't all other wind instruments go flat? I remember my trombone would always be sharp when it was cold. Would it make sense that as the emboucher fatigues, the player might compensate with more air pressure, which would explain the push sharp? Therefore, would the pitch going sharp be the fault of the instrument or the player?  And, I come back to this same question, regardless of the reason the clarinet pushes sharp (if it does), why should the piano or the pitch standard be held responsible?

    I'm just curious. Seems like if we allow the non-fixed pitch musicians request non-440 tunings, there would be no standard to keep it from just flying away.  I really wanted to ask the players to tune down to 438 or 439 for the sake of the piano because when the humidity goes back up, the piano is going to push way sharp. Seems to me that request would have been as credible as the one made of me.

    End of rant, comments appreciated, privately even, if you wish.
    Jeff Tanner
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