Waaay too big. These are WNG shanks!
From:
"Mark S Burgett" <markb at pianodisc.com>
To:
<caut at ptg.org>
Date:
08/24/2010 04:50 PM
Subject:
Re: [CAUT] CAUT Digest, Vol 22, Issue 95
Hi Paul,
If you just enlarge the hammer hole with a No.10 drill bit(.193") it is
perfect fit for a 15-20 second work time for our Gel CA glue. The size of
hole or the gap between the two parts is very important for the amount of
work time.
Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org]On Behalf Of
caut-request at ptg.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:25 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 22, Issue 95
Send CAUT mailing list submissions to
caut at ptg.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
caut-request at ptg.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
caut-owner at ptg.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Down Weight Too High With New Hammers (Israel Stein)
2. Re: WNG shanks - fair and balanced this time
"just-o-right-o-meter" (Paul T Williams)
3. Re: Down Weight Too High With New Hammers (Brent Fischer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:23:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: Israel Stein <custos3 at comcast.net>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: [CAUT] Down Weight Too High With New Hammers
Message-ID:
<422670479.296400.1282677789043.JavaMail.root at sz0173a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello again,
Forgot to mention that the Steinway L weighoff data with different parts
combinations that I posted in my previous message is for note #28.
Israel Stein
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <
http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20100824/c8e910de/attachment-0001.htm
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:53:56 -0500
From: Paul T Williams <pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] WNG shanks - fair and balanced this time
"just-o-right-o-meter"
Message-ID:
<OF789B7F67.639231F3-ON86257789.0070812B-86257789.0072CCB7 at unl.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi again,
I have a brass rod I use for settling strings to bridges and worse case,
tapping strings to bridges.
As you may have read recently, I was having some boring issues with my new
WNG shanks and hammers exactly the same diameter. Well, I found a trick,
since I don't have the correct sized reamer, I'll just describe what I did
for a successful job..(yet to be glued)
I took the end of this brass rod (sorry no measurements at hand), but it
was juuuust snug enough to get into the hammer, but not enough to give the
new hammer enough "wiggle" room on the shank. I took a file and made a
few minor cuts into it, so as to give it a little bite to remove ohhhh so
slightly enough wood from the moulding while spinning it a few times to
make a really nice fit between hammer and shank....I call it the
"just-o-right-o-meter" (which is what I call it when putting the correct
amount of glue before hanging. It worked like a charm with just enough
wiggle room between the two to get, what I'm thinking, will be a great
glue joint with enough room to still be able to adjust the rake a tad if
there is a problem....Like we aim for with wooden shanks, but just a bit
less.
A few were still too tight, so I took a small round file and took off
still a minute amount of wood from the bore hole to get it Juuuust right!
While doing this, it amazing that either some holes or shank diameters
were just a weee bit off to need more than the neighboring mating. I
could probably aim this at a small bit of difference in the swelling of
wood, due to the time of year. I highly doubt that the carbon fiber
swells or contracts much if at all.
Amazing what we techs can do in a pinch without proper tools! I will, of
course, purchase a reamer tomorrow, but if it works, then why bother? I
know, it may come in handy for some other project yet unforeseen, so I'll
still get one.
Just a thought for you dealing with these new WNG shanks.
Best,
Paul
From:
"McCoy, Alan" <amccoy at ewu.edu>
To:
"College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
Date:
08/24/2010 12:59 PM
Subject:
[CAUT] WNG shanks - fair and balanced this time
In the interest of fairness and accuracy I need to report back on an
experiment regarding a statement I made yesterday about WNG shanks being
only ?one-use? shanks. I was wrong. I know many of you will be shocked to
hear that news, but it?s true. I glued a hammer onto a WNG shank yesterday
with Titebond Trim and Molding glue. This morning I checked it out and the
hammer was tight as usual with a good collar. I took out my handy dandy
heat gun and heated the joint and within 45 seconds or so off came the
hammer and the remaining glue was soft enough for me to rub off with my
fingers.
So there you are. Granted this takes a bit longer to remove a set of
hammers than just cutting them off or otherwise removing them by pressing
them out, but it is doable for those times when you might want to reuse
the shanks. Having said that though, the shanks are definitely different
critters and I would not advise either cutting off old hammers (with anvil
pruners) or pressing them off. Too risky I think. In addition after you
have glued a new set of hammers onto the shanks, don?t get out your side
cutters and attempt to cut of the excess shank sticking out there. Not a
good option, tempting as it may be given their small diameter.
Alan
-- Alan McCoy, RPT
Eastern Washington University
amccoy at ewu.edu
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <
http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20100824/c0592cfa/attachment-0001.htm
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brent Fischer <brent.fischer at yahoo.com>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Down Weight Too High With New Hammers
Message-ID: <702448.16007.qm at web113519.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul,
?? ? ?Someone will feel this is a heavy action to play. Take your repsoff
and replace the whippen heel felt. Use Pianotek's green actioncloth,
medium thickness and that will solve that issue. Replacethe jack punchings
to reduce noise and the rep lever punchingsalso. ?Make sure the centers
are
in spec.?The shanks you are using may push a .415 keydip makingit "feel"
heavy. If you are dealing with the accelerated action, therewas
pre-leading done close to the balance rail. Take a bass
andmid-range key and re-move the three closest leads to the balancerail.
Move leads as close to the front as possible with a fifty-gramweight on
the front and see what you get, if the results along withreducing
molding weight as suggested on these trial keys getsyou there then pull
the leads and re-weigh as close to the frontas possible, plug holes, I
believe Pianotek sells the plugs. Makethe damper lift just a hair late and
you may be home free youngman with 30 bucks of material.
Brent
--- On Tue, 8/24/10, Wigent, Donald E, Jr <WIGENTD at ecu.edu> wrote:
From: Wigent, Donald E, Jr <WIGENTD at ecu.edu>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Down Weight Too High With New Hammers
To: "caut at ptg.org" <caut at ptg.org>
Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 7:14 AM
Hi Paul Don Wigent here.? It is possible to take wate off the hammers by
taking wood from the inside of the hammer tales, If there is some wood to
remove.
Remember 1 gram at
the
hammer???equals 5 at the key. If you should deside to remove some wood
from the inside of the hammer tale, use a small drumb sander on some sort
of drill pres or some thing. It can be dun by hand no jig needed..?
Between the removal of wood and proper regulation you will have less tw
Don Wigent
PS Don't get wigged out just do your job..? ? ?
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Milesi, RPT
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:54 PM
To: PTG CAUT List
Subject: [CAUT] Down Weight Too High With New Hammers
I installed pre-hung S&S hammers on the '70 S&S D, forced to use original
repetitions because of budget considerations.? With the regulation
only
"roughed in," the down weight feels too high to me when I play it.? Now I
find it's measuring in the range of 55-60 grams throughout.? I have
addressed friction in every area except removing and cleaning repetitions.
I can't believe rep spring grooves, etc., would make that much of a
difference; they don't seem that bad.
The new hammers are hung on NY improved shanks with knuckle further out.
I compared hammer/shank/flange #44 from the original and new sets, and
there
is, if I remember correctly, about a 2 gram difference.? But the originals
are so beat, I don't know if it's a very meaningful comparison.
Would mixing original 1970 reps with NYI H/S/F cause the geometry to be
that
different?? I was told by David Kirkland that I could "make it work,"
although using older repetitions wasn't first choice.? I know the hammer
weight changed in 1984, but understood that using NYI
shanks and flanges
would be all the compensation that was needed for the additional weight.
By the way, the upweight measures roughly 28-30g.? Also a little high, no?
And it seems to me there's a lot of lead in the keys, but I'm definitely
no
expert.? Doesn't this imply a somewhat too-heavy hammer?
I don't mean to be taking any shortcuts here, but there are time
constraints
and a balance/compromise that must be struck with all the other
instruments
I'm responsible for.? This one is starting to drown me.? Just wondering if
this touchweight issue is common when putting new hammers on a Steinway D
from this period, and if there is a typical or common remedy or approach
to
solving the problem.
This is only my 3rd set of hammers, and my first set completely on my own.
I'm thinking of attending the PTG hammer hanging class with Mike Carraher
and Keith Bowman in October.? Any thoughts
on whether I'll learn skills in
addition to hanging (determining bore angle, etc. and boring hammers, I
assume?) that might help me fix this?? Will they address how to arrive at
final touch weight?? I want to learn!? Guess I should contact Mike or
Keith.
OK, now I've exposed my near-total ignorance in this area and am
embarrassed.? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
--
Paul Milesi, RPT
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <
http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20100824/baae5a15/attachment.htm
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
CAUT mailing list
CAUT at ptg.org
http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut
End of CAUT Digest, Vol 22, Issue 95
************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20100824/e2aa633c/attachment-0001.htm>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC