Ron:
Thank you for your kind words. I have certainly appreciated your wisdom on the lists over the years and hope to keep gaining knowledge from you for a long time. I'm really appreciative of people who push the development of our chosen instrument rather than just doing what our forbearers have been doing for the past century. Keep researching, learning, and sharing your knowledge.
dave
David M. Porritt, RPT
dporritt at smu.edu<mailto:dporritt at smu.edu>
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ron Overs
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:37 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Appreciation
Hello Dave,
I replied to the list soon after your post, but suspect I used the wrong outbound SMTP server address, because my post bounced. But I'd like to thank you for pulling me up on my misunderstanding re the function of ETDs, and to second Charle's comments, as a long standing reader of your posts.
All the best,
Ron O.
________________________________
I have long appreciated your thoughtful, respectful, mature, and wise posts to this list. I know that SMU will miss you, but I wish you all the best in your well-deserved retirement, and hope that you will continue to share your experience and knowledge with your colleagues on this list.
Warm regards,
Charles
On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Porritt, David wrote:
Ron wrote: " The ETD uses the fundamental to determine the pitch, and will not be 'listening' to the fifths, fourths and tenths which will be annoying the aural tuner at the break transition."
Your observations about the hockey stick bridges and inharmonicity jumps are totally correct. However no ETD that I am aware of listens to the fundamental in the hockey stick area. SAT is listening to the 4th partial, TuneLab is flexible and can listen to any partial the tuner determines, but I'm not aware of anyone setting TuneLab to listen to the fundamental in that area. My choice was the 3rd partial in that area. The Verituner supposedly listens to multiple partials though I've never used one so I can't verify that.
Listening to the 3rd of 4th partial seems to help that area to be somewhat less bad that if it really were listening to the fundamental.
I still believe that once you solve the puzzle on a given piano it's nice to be able to save that solution for next time rather than solving the same puzzle over and over. Before I retired from SMU my life consisted of maintaining 106 pianos. It was quite a time and energy saver to pull out a saved solution for subsequent tunings rather than tuning as if I had never seen the instrument.
dave
David M. Porritt, RPT
dporritt at smu.edu<mailto:dporritt at smu.edu>
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org<mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org> [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ron Overs
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:01 PM
To: caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] using as ETD
Jim wrote;
>. . . and truthfully, sometimes the ETD just ain't right! I've got a
>SATIII and a Verituner and especially at the break I'll occasionally
>disagree with the machines. I really don't know why, and maybe the
>real good ETD guys can tell me, but sometimes I hear strong beats
>that are objectionable . . .
I'm strictly a 'fork basher' Jim, but I'd like to follow up on your
observation. The ETD's stretch calculation is based on the
inharmonicity following a geometric curve, which certainly doesn't
happen at the break when a hockey stick long-bridge is incorporated
into the 'design'. When tuning down towards the shortened speaking
lengths of the hockey stick, the rapidly falling tension will result
in the inharmonicity rising up, away from the geometric curve of an
idealised scale. The fifths will appear to be increasingly narrower
than they are on account of the sharper I(3) in the lower note of the
fifth - when checking the fifth, or the I(5) when checking the tenth.
The aural tuner will compensate by slightly widening the octave to
achieve an acceptable beat-rate progression. Similarly, when the
lower inharmonicity of the first covered notes are encountered,
especially if the first covered strings are on the hockey stick, the
aural tuner will tend to make these octaves slightly less wide, to
prevent the fourths from beating wildly. The ETD uses the fundamental
to determine the pitch, and will not be 'listening' to the fifths,
fourths and tenths which will be annoying the aural tuner at the
break transition.
If a technician can't tune a piano without the help of ETD, it will
be most unlikely that he/she will be capable of obtaining an accurate
tuning with one. Especially at the break of some pianos.
Its amazing how some technicians, who use ETD, claim that their
tunings will, by virtue of the machine, be superior to an aural
tuning? Ironically, it gives me an indication of the aural tuning
skills of any ETD-technician who makes such a claim.
Ron O.
--
OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
Grand Piano Manufacturers
_______________________
Web http://overspianos.com.au
mailto:ron at overspianos.com.au
_______________________
Charles Ball, RPT
Head Piano Technician
The Butler School of Music
The University of Texas at Austin
1 University Station, E 3100
Austin, Texas 78712
512-471-0763 (office)
512-923-2311 (cell)
--
OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
Grand Piano Manufacturers
_______________________
Web http://overspianos.com.au
mailto:ron at overspianos.com.au
_______________________
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