Don, Your comments, as usual, are right on. You also have been ever-present at Conventions and Seminars with many classes on prepping pianos. Could it be more cost-effective for manufacturers to charge a little extra for a more intensive class at a convention such as Shigeru prep? I know I’d be willing to pay more for that since I haven’t been able to get to your facility for it. I do think that more could be done from the manufacturers about encouraging dealers to hire technicians who have gone out of their way to take the additional training. I have gotten such training from two major manufacturers and the dealer had no idea or interest in that. They also had no incentive or reason to use my services instead of a cheap beginner. I was naïve to think they would care to know which technicians were making an extra effort and were a bit more familiar with the pianos they sell. In this area, you have been the only manufacturer representative to have such a discussion with a dealer. You have been more directly involved with dealers than anyone else. It has made a huge difference in the respect that the dealer has for technicians. I think other manufacturers could do much more in this area. This is what I have been trying to suggest throughout this thread. There doesn’t have to be a mandate. Perhaps certification or authorization is not realistic but how about some sort of support from manufacturers for those who have sought training? Thanks to Kawai; where are the others? It doesn’t have to involve money to be supportive of us and to make a statement about showing that they care about the quality of work done on their pianos. The only time that comes up if there is a serious warranty problem, otherwise, they could care less about the work done .or not done on their pianos. The lack of apparent involvement along these lines is the source of my frustration in this matter. Am I asking for something so impossible or out of line? Am I missing some piece in the big picture? Market research has proven that the personal touch makes a huge difference. Thanks, again, to you for doing such a good job. jeannie _____ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Don Mannino Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:49 AM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Jeanie's brain storm - was Boston changed to dealers... Wim, I'm sorry but your idealistic statements do not reflect an understanding of how the piano business operates. Let me give you an example that may be close enough to home that you will understand the manufacturer / dealer relationship: When a customer calls for the first time to schedule a tuning appointment, do you tell them that you only accept customers who have their piano tuned at least twice a year, and have full service appointments once per year? Piano dealers are the customers of the manufacturers. This is especially true during slow economic times - the primary goal is to support the piano dealer, provide the best pianos possible at the best price possible, and give them the guidance and tools to represent the product in a quality manner. Dealers are chosen more for financial stability and proven sales performance over time than anything else. Bad dealers who sell cheap, don't prep or and give bad service generally do not stay in business very long, and this weeds them out naturally to some degree. Part of the relationship involves cajoling the dealer into using a quality technician, and prepping their pianos. But the idea that a manufacturer can go to a dealer and say "either hire an RPT and prep every piano, or you can't be our dealer any longer" is very naiive. Well, there is one manufacturer that might get away with this occasionally, but that's about it. As for training, when sales are low training also is forced to be cut back. All of this talk about factory seminars is wonderful - but this costs money, and takes a huge amount of time for staff members who are already overloaded with other work. When business is good enough to be able to afford a larger support staff, then more training is done. But training does not, in my direct experience, guaranty that any technician will actually do good work. That is why no piano company allows people to be called factory "Trained" or "Certified" or even "Authorized" except in very limited cases. Let me ask another question: Have you ever had a musician listen to a bell choir and say "gee, why don't they play the chords together?" Immediately, that person becomes correctly labeled in your mind as someone who has never played in a bell choir, as bell players know that even professional bell groups strike chords a little out of sinc here and there. The critical comment might have been borne of innocence, but to a bell director or player it was annoying. Your advice to the critic would be to not try to give advice to people until actually understanding what's involved. So, to every technician who wants to tell dealers or manufacturers how they should do business, rather than expecting others to make things better, take some small steps to build relationships through your own actions. Call manufacturers for guidance when needed. Get prior approval whenever possible from the manufacturer when warranty service is needed, or call (or e-mail) and explain, with complete information on the piano, before sending a bill when prior approval is not possible. When a new piano is delivered in sub-par condition, say nothing to the customer unless the customer is complaining, but speak face to face with the dealer and explain that you liked the piano, but you noticed a few issues. Ask the dealer: If the customer becomes bothered by these issues, would the dealer agree to have you spend an hour or so to correct them? There are ways to build relationships with dealers and manufacturers that makes you the good guy, so that they know you are someone who can help them resolve problems. But this starts with the attitude and personality of the technician. In my experience, the personal attitude of the local technicians has a greater influence on dealer relations with the techs, and dealer willingness to spend money on prep and service, than anything a manufacturer will do or say. The tech can't turn an idiot dealer into a genius, but with considerate comments, kind suggestions, and doing favors (such as a sample prep job done at a reduced rate) which lead the dealer to understand how much better the prepped pianos will sell, produces better results than anyone demanding anything. Don Mannino RPT -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of wimblees at aol.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:26 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Jeanie's brain storm - was Boston changed to dealers... One, is that manufactures should put together some sort of training program that can be taught at PTG sponsored seminars, where, over a period of time, technicians could take the courses necessary to become "factory trained". The second thing is that manufactures offer the title of "factory trained" automatically to all RPT's. I realize that just because someone has passed the RPT exams doesn't automatically make them as qualified as perhaps someone who has attended a Yamaha or Steinway training sessions, but someone who is an RPT has to be better than a rank beginner, as described before. But these training sessions won't do a bit of good unless the manufactures strongly encourage, if not demand, their dealers to use RPT's, or "factory trained" technicians to do the prep work. The emphases here is that it is the manufacturers who are responsible to make sure their instruments are properly prepped at the dealers. Without that requirement, it will never happen. Mark asked what should they do if a dealer doesn't hire qualified techs. That question should not even need to be asked, because one of the requirements to be a Yamaha, (or Steinway, or Samick,) dealer should be to have a qualified tech on staff, or at least available, if it is a smaller store that doesn't need a full time tech. Wim _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> . We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 289 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message. No virus found in this incoming message. 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