Hi Don.
Again, I have to agree with just about all of this. Just until very
recently I've even tended towards letting my top 7-8 notes tend towards
a compromise between a P-12 (3:1) and a 2:1 octave... but I find my self
actually half muting with my fingernail to get the 3rd partial from
somewhere around C6 to make sure those highest notes are exactomundo on
the button (as far as Tunelab can do that) the same frequency... then
cracking resulting unisons up there to find a sweet spot for 2 strings,
and bringing in the 3rd to fit for clarity and sustain as best I can.
As for the bass... I'm doing something similar to your stretch... but
using 6:1 12ths types to get there. Especially for A0 to D1 I make sure
this matches, and it almost always results in a slightly wide D2 D1 6:3
octave that increases a bit in width as one goes downwards. Never gets
past an audible low frequency single bps... that seems to bother me. My
other bass must... and this goes for 12ths starting with A3 as the top
note of the 12th... It has to have an overall <<beatless>> quality to
it. That is not to say it actually is beatless... just to say none of
the relevant 12th types stand out as annoyingly quick and up front.
Mixed with various octave types this results in a very nice clean deep
sounding bass. I'd love to compare with how you get there sometime :)
Never got so far as to try Jims perfect 5ths tuning (Is that the one you
meant ?)
Cheers
RicB
Rick,
I agree that the test you described does result in a P12ths style
octave. And most of what I was writing was pertaining to the center
part of the piano. I was commenting mainly on the tonal affects of
the beat rates of the 3rds and 6ths near the center as a result of a
wide octaves.
Entering into a discussion of octaves at the extreme is a whole new
topic. I don't think any one formula applied consistently to the
whole piano is going to be the best, and if there is a shortcoming
to the electronic tuning machines in use today, it is that they do
tend to have relatively generic stretch values throughout the scale.
I am not practiced with any of the current crop of tuning systems
from Europe to be able to comment on their top and bottom octave
widths, as I have not paid to receive any software or detailed
instructions on the tuning methods. My interpretation of Jim
Coleman's system was that it was similar to the Steinway NY method
(although approached differently) which resulted in very sharp high
treble You should know, though, that I like narrow (slightly wide
2:1) octave width for the top octave, and I like the bottom octave
to be stretched wide enough to growl nicely - depending on the piano
this is usually a 10:5 octave or wider, even a
wide 12:6 for concert grands sometimes :-)
In my tuning seminar, the wide octave piano pushes the stretch wide
all the way to the top, the way one of the Kawai concert techs likes
it, and similar to what I heard from some of the Steinway New York
technicians. This allows me to show the class that both sound fine
playing music (albeit noticeably different), but the difference of
C8 when comparing the two pianos is enough to incite derision from
some tuners!
Don Mannino
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