Boy this thread has transmogrified - but still related to tuning, at least. I've thought through these ideas a bit as well, and have a few thoughts to contribute along the same lines of hearing the differences between tunings. I present a class at conventions sometimes where I tune 2 matched pianos to very different tunings and have the class listen to the differences. It is usually quite audible, especially once I point out the differences to the technicians (important point, this, but a topic for another message). The easiest way to hear it is to play quiet chords with both hands in the middle of the keyboard, and listen to the general sound of the chords, not in pitch but in tone color and "quaveriness." To my old and well-abused ear, octave widths change the sound of the tuning more than temperament style (meaning equal or unequal). To me, this is because the relative speed of all of the 3rds and 6ths changes a fair amount. This means that a wide octave tuning (such as one based on 12ths) can be heard in a comparison to a narrow tuning. The wide octave tuning (meaning P12s or close) has more energy, is more aggressive and tense sounding, to the point where it can become (wow, I can't find the right terms!) dry and sterile as the beats become too fast to hear as beats, especially in to the mid treble. The fast beats, to my ear, cause a sort of grating edge to the tone. To my ear the octaves are too fast as one goes up into the treble, and sympathetic coupling of the octaves does not take place as efficiently at the top. In contrast, a narrow octave (meaning 2:1 or close) causes thirds and 6ths to beat slow, which some people may not like because they become sort of wet and lush. I have had musicians tell me this sounds "sweet" to them, but others say it lacks energy and bite. Unfortunately tonal memory is not very persistent, so tuning the same piano one way then another to compare is not quite as revealing unless one records it. But teaching my comparison class is extraordinarily difficult because of the need for similar pianos and all of the preparation necessary (minimum of 8 hours, usually, for a 1.5 hour class!). One time I prepared 2 Shigeru 6'1" grands for this seminar, and then they were moved into a different room just before the class. The air conditioning started doing it's thing, and the effect of the tunings was lost! The tenor of the wide stretch piano came sharp, but the other one didn't move as much. It kind of spoiled the class, but was a valuable illustration as to how subtle these differences are. Once one moves to the audience in a reverberant concert hall to listen to the sound of the piano, then all is changed. Differences between tunings become even more subtle, I think, and only the energy of the sound matters. I feel this is one reason why tune-offs don't really work well. This is also one of the arguments for using wide stretch for concerts: The piano seems to have more energy and projection, and the subtleties of the 3rds and 6ths are not really heard. Don Mannino -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:20 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] String Coupling / SB and Bridge stiffness...and maybePure Sound Or they show that, beyond a certain point of refinement, it really doesn't matter.
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