Hi Ben,
I think that you are right about some of the people being a little too sensitive. It seems that there is a little group that thinks that only their opinion counts and if someone else thinks differently, this group can say whatever they want about that person and that this is O.K. for this little group to do so. I do see a lot of humor in many of these responses if only people would not be so sensitive to those outside of the little group. This is too bad as this site should be to share information and to respect all opinions and not just those of a select few even though they are excellent at their craft and do have a lot to share. I have not been one who has been put down or hurt at any time, but, I have talked to others who have not shared what they want to say due to the fact that they also notice that anyone outside of the select few as righteous are liable to be viewed as bumkins. Too bad, there is so much to be learned by all and from all. We all need to lighten up. None of us are the greatest thing to hit the realm of piano techs, there is always someone who is better at various aspects of the craft then we are, and all of us can learn from everyone.
God bless
Bill Balmer, RPT
University of Findlay and Ohio Northern University
In a message dated 04/24/09 12:54:45 US Eastern Standard Time, sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu writes:
Greetings fellow Piano Techs!
If it is any consolation, who could have a problem with Don Mannino. Who has sacrificed for the guild more? His willingness to teach is second to none. We had him do a technical in Cincinnati, and I feel genuine guilt when I do not follow his instructions on voicing and other things he is so convincing a teacher. I have learned too much from him to feel any animosity whatsoever, and if that was the spirit in which my comment was taken, please forgive me. I was joking around a bit, and I thought he was too. It is all in good fun, I thought.
I don't think I have had as much contact with Fred Strum. But I do read posts that go on and on, and I find his to be enviable. I would like very much for him to be able to condense the tuning specific research he has done and make it available for all of us, and in no way mean to discourage him from doing so. Sometimes that sort of research takes more than one language as well. I will concede that I do to some extent understand how the Grout could seem directed at something else, but have some difficulty separating music from tuning. I also understand someone completely who would want to live in New Mexico, one of the coolest places in the country. I can only assume he is an excellent technician for getting employed there.
Maybe I am not sensitive enough, but I think you can take things too personally. If I am wrong, or unintelligible, I want to know. If I offended anyone, or was disrespectful, I sincerely am sorry. These guys are the best we got in the country, and I am proud to be chastised by them; they don't need my approval.
I will work on trying to communicate ideas more effectively in the future, and believe it or not, appreciate feedback, whether or not affirming my contentions. Back to Work!
Thanks for the comments,
- Ben Sloane RPT
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Wolfley, Eric (wolfleel)
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:29 PM
To: 'caut at ptg.org'
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Nichtgebunden
Thank you Jim.
Eric Wolfley, RPT
Director of Piano Services
College-Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jim Busby
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 12:13 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Nichtgebunden
Ben,
You seem to be getting a bit out of line for this "CAUT" line. No, I haven't published anything either so don't even google it.
Just a friendly bit of advice. When you post here if your post is too long most people won't read it. I love Fred, but sometimes I even delete his posts, (sorry Fred) even though I do save most of them. That's just how it is on CAUT, and other such venues.
You really don't want to disrespect Don Mannino or Fred. Don may not be published, but is as at the very TOP of his game (as a piano tech) and is highly admired and sought after for advice. Don very well could write volumes, and they would sell well. I would buy anything he wrote. Same with Fred. They are both very nice people as well, and while their post may have seemed a bit disrespectful they are both gentlemen. If you do tick them off you really have crossed the line.
In summary, shorter, more succinct posts are easier to read and better accepted, and I think that is where Fred and Don seemed a bit irritated. I usually just hit the delete button... Don't blast me now. I'm just trying to help, even though you didn't ask.
Jim Busby RPT
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba)
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:57 AM
To: 'caut at ptg.org'
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Nichtgebunden
Fred Sturm asked,
"What exactly are you trying to say and why?"
It is not on my authority, but that of Donald J. Grout, Claude V. Palisca, and Johann Nikolaus Forkel that I conclude:
1. The limitations of how accurately we can tune are not epistemological, but based on the instrument itself. Richard Strauss described orchestration just the same way in his revision of the Berlioz "Treatise on Instrumentation," and disparaged the capacity of a keyboard player to compose, due to his or her lack of familiarity with the orchestra. Not only tuning, but the music itself, is based on what the instrument you are using is capable of, not theory.
2. Equal temperament started in the 16th century.
3. People started compromising the tonic, subdominant, and dominant in the direction of equal temperament in the 15th century.
Fred, your argument is with Grout, Palisca, and Forkel, not with me.
Don Mannino asked:
Is English not your first language? Asides from the heading of your message being German (unbound? the connection with your long post seems a bit tenuous), your writing syntax indicates that English has perhaps been recently learned. Is this correct?
Hey whatda ya no, I type Don Mannino in Amazon books and get nuttin' you wrote. I would be happy to see a list of publications, out of print, of course, by Don Mannino. Let me see what I get with Fred Sturm, hmmmm... what a surprise, it looks like nothing you wrote even came up. There must be something wrong with Amazon, what kinda site is this???!!! You didn't happen to write "Changes Over Time, the Evolution of Jazz Arranging," did you Fred? Let me know when you get published yourself, and I will think of rescinding what I wrote. I'll even buy a copy.
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 10:12 AM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Nichtgebunden
On Apr 24, 2009, at 3:59 AM, Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba) wrote:
> Seeing that what I claim about keyboards, tuning, and maintenance
> on my authority-whether or not acknowledging it as such guesswork-
> now may or may not be true according to better authority, it is a
> good time for me to make assertions yet on the authority of even
> others that will bolster some of my firmer convictions stated,
> authorities that cannot be disputed in the CAUT environment or on
> the CAUT list, by anyone.
Hi Benjamin,
I am very puzzled. This extremely long and rambling post was a propos
of what? In response to what? What exactly are you trying to say and
why? I am guessing it has something to do with the history of tuning
systems, but exactly what is beyond me.
BTW, with respect to the Palisca/Grout textbook, it has been taken
over by Peter Burkholder, a college mate of mine (I accompanied him in
voice lessons). A new edition came out recently, I think Peter's
second stab at it. I wouldn't take such a generalized textbook as
being a "final authority" on anything, though such works do tend to
"follow the commonly accepted path." If you want details on a specific
area, like historical tuning, you need to look at specialized books
and articles. The generalizations of a general textbook often miss the
details that matter the most.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm at unm.edu
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