I should also probably add about the Steinway D 487831 80's era that I like so much in the band room, though I find it interesting that no one else added this, in addition to what Love identified as possibly being the full diaphragmatic sound of the piano, was that at this time, Steinway installed full Renner actions, some of them with one piece ivories that could be mistaken as plastic, because there is no crease. The Renner action centers, at least on the hammer shank action centers, if not all of them, at that time, used glue on one side, and a paste graphite lubricant on the other, nothing like the synthetic lubricants being used today. They also installed, or started with a 21 (.052) size center pin that contrary to zero friction, weighed out at 1-2 grams, that while significantly reducing friction, didn't wobble; we could start at a lower size pin. There is one at Oberlin, it was 50, the one here at Cincinnati, 84. Though we could start larger than this, larger pins in action centers that we reduce friction much as possible in tend to reduce the kind of things we associate with action centers that are too loose with smaller pins. Steinway cannot be held entirely responsible for all their successes either. -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:03 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway or Forgery? Well that would be nice but you can only bring up the treble to the degree that the board allows you to bring it up. A very bright percussive and distorted splat won't necessarily be a good match for a huge gnarly bass. I think, on the contrary, that what you can reasonably get out of the treble dictates to some degree how you must voice the rest of the piano. If the treble is a disaster then you choose your poison. My view is that the introduction of the full diaphragmatic soundboard created a much more flexible assembly and in the process (and combined with a heavier hammer) boosted the whump at attack creating a sense of greater power. It also created more distortion in the middle and shorter sustain in the treble. Sadly, it may have also shortened the effective life of the soundboard. While I can't really attest to the motivations it seems that it was driven by a lust for power but there was a trade off and the older minimally thinned (bass and treble shelf only) boards perform better, in my view, with a more balanced tone and better control in a broader dynamic range. It's interesting when you have the opportunity, as I have recently, of comparing side by side a pre diaphragmatic soundboard (a healthy one) next to a fully diaphragmatic one. The new one is clearly louder, bigger whump, but the quality of tone is diminished (at least in my view): more distortion, poorer sustain, lack of control in the lower dynamic range. Pianos are more than just a big bass. Bass sections in the literature are mostly supportive. It's not rock and roll, after all. With the piano literature we don't wait anxiously for the bass solo (if we ever did:-)). This is not necessarily to fault Steinway for making this change. I assume they had their reasons. But you don't get something for nothing and I think the trade off wasn't necessarily all positive. Perhaps in the short term for a louder whumpier big bang concert instrument. But even then, I've seen many of those pianos begin to fail after a relatively short time. With the smaller instruments that don't need that bigger whump I think it was a poor trade. Of course, that's my esthetic opinion. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba) Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:53 AM To: 'caut at ptg.org' Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway or Forgery? Every one criticizes the CBS years. Yet one thing I find consistently when I sit in front of a CBS Steinway is a powerful bass that outpowers every Steinway I hear, from decades before and after, even 25, 30, 40 years into its life. With a bass like that, you can bring up the treble 'till your heart's content.
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