[CAUT] Which S&S replacement action parts?

[David Ilvedson]

I have been working at this very thing at Stanford.  Repinning all the D's.  I repinned the Hamburg to 4 grams and a year later it was maybe 1 gram.   I repinned again and used the very same center pin but had the friction back up...I was able to get about 5 grams.   I think the bushing cloth is polishing the center pin and lowering the friction.   My question is how do you know if you have adequate firmness?   At least I can measure the friction level accurately...

I've repinned a bunch of newer Yamaha grands measuring at barely 1 gram.   I definitely find a much more focused tone.   Cleaner and eliminating, for a time, voicing issues...

By the way, I am interested in center pins.   I've found that Schaff center pins are "slightly" smaller than Pianotek.   Which is very nice for that slightly more resistance going from the Schaff to the Pianotek when needed.   The Pianotek is German Silver...what are you folks using for centerpins.   I want to try them all...


David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Fred Sturm" <fssturm at unm.edu>
To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org>
Received: 6/25/2008 5:41:13 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Which S&S replacement action parts?


>On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Barbara Richmond wrote:

>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> I may be mistaken, but I don't think it's the price of the parts,  
>> it's the pinning/flange cloth controversy.  Uh oh, I mentioned  
>> it...  :-o
>>
>> Barbara Richmond, RPT
>> near Peoria, Illinois


>Hi Barbara,
>	This is ground we've been over several times, but maybe it bears  
>revisiting a bit. It seems to me to be the question of friction versus  
>firmness. I spent a good number of years in pursuit of friction, a  
>fairly high standard applied evenly throughout (shanks in particular),  
>thinking that gave me a feel and a sound that was improved. I'm not  
>sure exactly how much I was influenced by my mindset, thinking I would  
>have the better action feel and more focused sound, and so because of  
>my expectation I found it.
>	In recent years, arguments by Don Mannino in particular, and various  
>others as well, have led me to the belief that firmness is what  
>matters, and that friction can be very low and the action made to work  
>well and feel responsive. Partly that is just adapting to the reality  
>of modern Steinway parts - my first reaction was to try to get the  
>friction up. Didn't work. Didn't last. That teflon impregnation does  
>its job.
>	In the end, I have come to the conclusion that firmness of pinning is  
>what matters for tone, and that I can regulate adequately to whatever  
>friction there is. That's where my head is at the moment. Partly it is  
>just a matter of "going with the flow" (working with the parts I  
>have), but I certainly haven't found (in my alter-ego as pianist) that  
>I notice any particular difference in feel between, say, Renner parts  
>pinned firmly (4 - 6 gm)  and Steinway parts pinned like Steinway  
>parts (firm, but in the 0-2 gm range). I feel pretty certain that lack  
>of wobble in the bushing is the key to the sound component, and felt  
>impregnated with a solidifying teflon product does that quite well.  
>BTW, it is quite possible to pin with high friction and low firmness  
>(same goes for key bushings).
>	I'm sure there are others with opposite opinions of various natures.  
>Which is just fine with me.

>Regards,
>Fred Sturm
>University of New Mexico
>fssturm at unm.edu