On 10/19/07, rwest1 at unl.edu <rwest1 at unl.edu> wrote: > > Hi, Jim, > > After I got out of Western Iowa Tech, I thought I knew quite a bit about > pianos. I quickly learned that I still had a lot to learn. I barely knew > enough to pass my RPT exam. In the 35 years since, then, I would have to > say that the expansion of my knowledge was based on experience, i.e. a > problem occurrs that I haven't encountered before and I have to deal with > it. Hopefully I fix the problem. In a nutshell that's what I mean by > "experience based." > > > A little book that was particularly helpful early in my career was a book > titled The Piano Tuners Pocket Companion by Oliver Faust. On one side of > the page there was a symptom and on the other was the solution. Early on > that got me through a lot of repairs, but as I expanded my knowledge, I > realized that repairs aren't always a simple symptom/solution question. > Dampers are a good example of what I mean. You have a ringing damper, but a > plethora of possible solutions including ones that don't even have anything > to do with the actual damper you're working on (sympathetic vibrations or a > duplex length of string). But with perseverance you figure out where the > problem lies and learn what to look for. This becomes an experienced based > repair that you add to your mental data bank. > > > Experience gives you a bag of "tricks" to draw from to help diagnose > problems, but these tricks of the trade aren't compiled and written down and > so it's hard for beginners to get what they need to know, without going > through the school of hard kocks. > > > The problem in developing materials is multifaceted. First there's > figuring out how to deal with the multilayered nature of our work. Second > there's the problem of who's going to be using the materials. Let's face > it, we aren't all equally gifted in the mechanical arts. Some people hardly > need an explanation and others need detailed explanations and even then may > screw up. > > > So when I pose the question: What does a university tech need to know and > how does he/she acquire that knowledge, I relate first to my own > experience. I learned to be less compromising and more exacting in my > work. If I wasn't, I'd hear about it. I went to PTG meetings and picked up > ideas there. I scratched my head a lot and just spent the time it took to > learn how to work on things like harpsichords, an inventory, reports, etc. > etc. I persevered. But it would have been helpful if I'd had a book like > Oliver Faust's that gave straightforward solutions to common problems. Also > I realized that learning multiple ways of doing something, forced me to > think about what works best for me. Key bushing is an example. I've tried > a whole host of different ways to bush keys. I'm still looking for the > perfect system. I've settled on a system that isn't particularly fast and > efficient, but it gives me fairly predictable results. > > > The first priority in concert work in getting it right. Speed and > efficiency should also be there, but not necessarily. Especially for the > mechanically challenged. Sometimes doing a job slowly but predictably is > the only way. > > > I don't know if my longwinded explanation helps, but there it is. I'm > glad you asked, because it helped me try to try to get a better grasp of how > we learn this profession. We don't write or teach in a vacuum. Perhaps the > greatest challenge is getting through to people. That means we need to know > how people learn so that our materials reach them. I don't know that PTG > has been particularly good at addressing this aspect of learning. > > > Sorry I took so long to reply. I've had lots on my plate this week. > Retirement isn't about just sitting around and getting bored or watching a > screen all day. > > > Richard West > > > > On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Jim Busby wrote: > > Richard, > > > > I'm helping develop the curriculum and agree with all your points below, > but could you explain/elaborate on #2 below "CAUT classes/materials need to > be experience based"? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jim Busby > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org<caut-bounces at ptg.org>] > *On Behalf Of *rwest1 at unl.edu > *Sent:* Monday, October 15, 2007 7:44 AM > *To:* College and University Technicians > *Subject:* Re: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement (was Re: Job Opening, U. of > Michigan,Ann Arbor) > > > > I would like to weight in with a few thoughts. > > > > 1. Education--CAUT has been doing well in recent years to develop classes > and I believe that should be the highest priority, not only classes at the > convention, but classes at every regional seminar and at local > institutions. The classes should become more or less standardized and > repeated annually. What CAUT should be asking is: What core knowledge can > be taught across the country, not just at the annual convention. Nationwide > distribution/availabiltiy should be paramount since many technicians will > not be able to attend the convention annually or even regularly. > > > > 2. Experience--How does anyone get the experience to do advanced work? > Unfortunately most of that comes from seat-of-the-pants, in-the-field work. > When I started at the University of Nebraska, I had been a piano > technician for only 3 years with practically no experience in voicing, and > no knowledge of harpsichords or other historical keyboards. I learned on > the job. That first 5 years was hell. The 25 years after that were great. > CAUT classes/materials need to be experience based. We already have books > that provide general knowledge. > > > > 3. The Guidelines--One goal of the Guidelines was to inform > administrators about what the job includes so that they would appreciate the > intricacies of the job and the pay scale would rise. This hasn't really > happened; our document is seen as self serving. Therefore the main value of > the document is to inform technicians about what they're getting into when > they apply for university jobs. CAUT education needs to continue to inform > all technicians about the nature of university work so that when the > interview comes around, they'll be able to differentiate what we do from > what all other staff people do. You can't expect a higher pay scale when > your immediate supervisor may be a staff person that isn't making as much as > what you're asking. Administrators don't see us as any different than a > stage manager, administrative assistant, or, yes, a specialized custodian. > Until that perception changes, or until applicants refuse jobs that don't > pay wages that are competitive with private concert work, then university > techs will continue to be underpaid. > > > > 4. Testing--Until RPT is an accepted nationwide standard, I would put > testing at a low priority. If testing is the current priority, the cart is > being put in front of the horse. The problems we have with RPT testing are > IMHO greater for a CAUT standard. The test would have to provide a better > way to address testing problems like nationwide availability, qualified and > experience examiners, testing that is fair and objective (using ETD's when > ETD's can be problematic as repeatably accurate), length of time to give the > test, using volunteers vs developing paid examiners, etc. A complete > tuning, for example, sounds good as a goal for a testing standard, but > implementing that seems to hark back to the good ole boy days. > > > > Richard West, retired (more or less) > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 12, 2007, at 5:46 PM, Fred Sturm wrote: > > > > On Oct 12, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Richard Brekne wrote: > > > > Just a thought on the tuning test idea. The present RPT test is to my > mind of thinking absurdly time consuming to set up and execute. Nor do I > believe it should be necessary to have it such. A tuning standard can be > easily defined in terms of what decided upon sets of coincident partials > behave like when tuned. As a banal example, one could simple ask the > examinee to execute a bass tuning from say D3 downwards in terms of exact > 6:3 types. This is extremely easy to measure afterwards and requires no > prior set up... outside of a reasonably detuned instrument. It doesn't > take much imagination to see how this principle could be applied to > encompass a real tuning that is quite acceptable in real life terms. One > added benefit of this approach would be that the examinee would know ahead > of time exactly what is expected of him/her. This is far from always the > case in the present system. I would think it would be nonproblematic to > extend this approach to a very demanding test. > > > > Cheers > > RicB > > > > Hi Ric, > > This is, in fact, very close to the current concept for a caut > tuning test. We analyze a sequence of coincident partials for consistency. > It could, of course, be 6:3 octaves as you mention. And there are many other > possibilities as well. Our initial plan is to look at double and triple > octaves, the 4:1 and 8:1 partial matches, and see how evenly they progress. > If something is out of kilter, it should show up pretty clearly. > > But we don't, in this early draft version, plan to ask the > examinee to do anything but tune "your best concert tuning," explaining that > we will look particularly for crystal clear and rock solid unisons, and for > evenness of stretch in the outer octaves. IOW, no artificial constraints, > just do what you normally do in that circumstance. > > I think the requirement that all unisons be within 0.5 cents > tolerance after pounding is pretty demanding, though well within what I hope > most of us are producing on a day to day basis. Beta testing will reveal > whether or not this is so, and whether we might need to fudge a little to, > say, 0.6 or something, and possibly more in high treble where ETD > resolution can be a problem. > > How the analysis of partial matches will work: well, it is at > least an intriguing concept, and seems worth exploring. On the face of it, > it seems like it should work like a charm, but proof is in the pudding. > > Regards, > > Fred Sturm > > University of New Mexico > > fssturm at unm.edu > > > > > > > > As a (very)part-time CAUT I don't know if my opinions count for much or are welcome, on this issue, except I can offer a fresh perspective on some of the issues both personally and professionally. First of all the University and school pianos that I service are done as a private contractor so I don't have the situations/pressures that many of you face every day. On the other hand I frequently am notified in an offhand last minute fashion of their need for my services. Many times they have rehearsed on the same piano intended for use for weeks but only think to tune it 2 or 3 days before the performance! I am then frequently limited to how much I can do by budget constraints. This however is not why I'm writing. Fred Sturm commenting on some remarks made by Richard West, wrote of his surprising himself when he felt he was a skilled tuner until he began "following himself" as a CAUT tuning the same piano the next month, week or day which gave him the opportunity to hone his skills for nailing down every string, every unison for rock solid tunings. I like this thinking, a lot, this is what I strive for, I stopped tuning for my customers over 25 years ago when I realized that my standards had surpassed theirs. I now tune to please myself with the knowledge that if I do so, my callbacks will be non-existant. I do the same with my concert work, with the exception of the George Winston types who ask for outside of the box things in their tunings. I had the (good?) fortune to have tuned for a dealer for several years who supplied pianos for the State sponsored solo & ensemble contests and had the opportunity to re-examine my tunings week after week each spring for several years, learning quite a bit about myself, my tuning and it's stability. I believe Fred made his point but I wanted to cover that part of it again because it is a very important point. Another area addressed by a few people was the seat of the pants repairs, finding that elusive rattle or getting that damper to stop creating that overtone. I came late to the Guild, I am now very ashamed to say, I spent the first 30 years of my 38 years in this craft outside the PTG. I had a mentor who was a member and invited me from time to time but I never felt the need for some unknown reason. So I came up, remember this was before the internet and cell phones, figuring out a lot of things for myself and what I couldn't, I discussed with Paul my mentor and he usually had an answer or idea for me to try. Consequently I became very good at coming up with plan A repairs and while I was performing plan A, formulating plan B just in case, I never got beyond plan D without one of them working!<g>My point is a tech can go to the best school, read all of the books but if he/she doesn't have that seat of the pants spirit of,"OK, I've never seen this before but I'm here, alone so I HAVE to figure it out"! She/He will not make the best tech and perhaps that should be a consideration on a CAUT test. Throw some "out of left field" problems at them and see what they come up with. My mentor used to be one of the testors for the RPT test, back when they used to lay out a table full of objects and the testee would have to name them for the nomenclature test. Paul liked to put a non-piano item on the table, something fairly obscure, usually an antique tool from his collection just see what the person would say, for fun but I think it was also to see if they exhibited something that is lacking more and more these days, common sense. Having the ability to deal with an unexpected problem that develops in an instrument that you are preparing for a concert without going into a panic strikes me as the epitomy of a good concert tech and CAUT. Mike -- Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning.-- Albert Einstein Michael Magness Magness Piano Service 608-786-4404 www.IFixPianos.com email mike at ifixpianos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20071019/3fdc5193/attachment.html
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC