[CAUT] 5 Pianos

[David Ilvedson]

What's with the C#5?   Is that a voicing issue?   

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Kent Swafford" <kswafford at gmail.com>
To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org>
Received: 12/21/2007 5:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] 5 Pianos


>Ron's B in Rochester is a different piano, finished _after_ the one in  
>my recordings. They are not identical pianos.

>Kent


>On Dec 21, 2007, at 1:49 AM, Richard Brekne wrote:

>> Way Cool Kent !!  And I agree entirely with your conclusion in your  
>> first paragraph. Variety is not only essential... its a fact we all  
>> have to relate to like it or not, and really should welcome. It also  
>> fits well with my own recent experience in the reactions to Griegs  
>> piano at different pitches.  People think, hear, experience and find  
>> musical joy in very different ways.
>>
>> I also found it instructive (for me)  to compare my blind test  
>> comments to what you reveal below.  I was sure the 1st piano was  
>> asian, but it didnt remind of a CF III.... I had really thought it  
>> must have been a less expensive make.  That it turns out to be a C7  
>> in the end makes perfect sense. These have a much less big and round  
>> character then the S series instruments Yamaha makes.  Personally I  
>> like their C6 better as a whole... tho I do know of one very  
>> beautiful exceptional C7.  In general, tho hard to voice beautiful  
>> IMHO without killing the power.
>>
>> Also really fascinating about number 5.  This is the second time  
>> you've blind tested us on a Nossaman, and the second time I've come  
>> with a response going along the <<thinish>> line.  If this is the B  
>> he had in Rochester... then the recording does not remind me of what  
>> I heard live.  I really liked his instrument...tho if I had any  
>> comment at the time I guess it would be that it was almost too fat  
>> sounding in the lower tenor and bass. Especially at louder volumes.   
>> But the thin sound I am picking up.... I wonder if this has to do  
>> with this relationship between sustain and initial attack power.  If  
>> you get longer sustain at higher volumes you end up with a total  
>> vibrational picture that is quite different then an equally powerful  
>> attack moment followed by a shorter and less powerful sustain  
>> period.  Easy to imagine that our subjective tastes will differ...  
>> both individually and in ourselves over time.
>>
>> Really cool thread
>>
>> Cheers
>> RicB
>>
>>
>>   Thanks for all the replies, public and private.
>>
>>   The following links contain a description of the audio recorder I  
>> used     to record the 5 pianos:
>>   http://tinyurl.com/2hzedd
>>   http://tinyurl.com/25242u
>>
>>   A very interesting thing is that each of the 5 pianos was named  
>> as     someone's favorite. I take this as evidence that variation in  
>> pianos     is essential. Different manufacturers should take  
>> different approaches     to piano sound -- and there is merit to  
>> Steinway's traditional     approach of letting different pianos  
>> coming out of their factories     having different characters. (I  
>> still hate it when a good pianist has     different requirements of  
>> a piano than the one in front of him can     give.)
>>
>>   Here are the 5 pianos:
>>
>>   1. Yamaha C7 voiced to within an inch of its life some years ago  
>> for     chamber music. This is a fine piano, with a great bass. It  
>> now lives     in a school lunch room, almost completely unappreciated.
>>
>>   2. Bosendorfer Imperial, just back from being rebuilt in Vienna.  
>> So     far, pianists love this piano, although I believe the treble  
>> is in     desperate need of proper voicing. There is little  
>> incentive to do the     voicing because pianists like it as is, so  
>> far.
>>
>>   3.  Steinway B recently completely rebuilt by Greg Hulme. The  
>> Renner     hammers are too bright for me, but the piano sounds good.
>>
>>   4.  2000 Steinway D. 700-seat hall. I absolutely love this piano.
>>
>>   5.  Steinway B with belly by Ron Nossaman; I did the action. The  
>> piano     is both clean- and full-sounding. (The same thing that Ric  
>> called     "thin" in the sound I would characterize positively as  
>> "transparent".)     The recordings of the 5 pianos reflect the real  
>> volume levels of the     pianos; I think that a close listen will  
>> reveal that Ron's piano has     the most sound; I also think Ron's  
>> piano still sounds good when the     playback is turned way up;  
>> listen close; this piano can bear some     scrutiny.  8^)
>>
>>   Here is a recording on Ron's B of Dave Brubeck's Greensleeves:
>>
>>   http://tinyurl.com/2obhxn
>>
>>   Thanks for listening.
>>
>>   Kent
>>