Anne, Bravo! It's nice to have occasion to prove to skeptics that fortepianos CAN stay in tune and don't have to be consigned to the recycling bin. I, too, have had similar positive results when tuning for performances in Florida, Texas & Georgia. The majority of my work, however, takes place in Ohio, Michigan and New York, and occasionally in Illinois, Iowa and other parts of the Mid-West where the RH from Nov.-March can hover as low as 10%-15% on stage. I've worked concerts where the best of instruments have had soundboard cracks blast open (sounds like a gunshot!) right during performances. I switch into the mindset of my checklist below when the RH drops below 20% or above 60% (in venues without air-conditioning). Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Robert A. Murphy Piano Technician & Curator of Fortepianos Oberlin Conservatory of Music cell: 517.285.3269 shop: 440.775.8275 On Nov 14, 2006, at 11:18 PM, Anne Acker wrote: > Well, here is today's real life concert situation for a fortepiano, > just to show you it shouldn't be a royal pain. > > Drove from Savannah to Daytona Beach, FL last night. My fortepiano > slept outside in the van overnight, beachside. it usually lives in > carefully controlled 45 percent rh. > > Loaded the fp into the big concert hall 8:30 a.m. they hadn't turned > on the a/c or the lights yet. I insisted they get all the lights up > to what we'd have in the evening...both pianos open. > > proceeded to tune the Steinway (Paul Badura-Skoda was playing all > Mozart, first half on my fp, 2nd half on the Steinway, and a lecture > discussing the pianos before the concert). > > started tuning my fp at 10, rehearsal scheduled for 12-3. Done at > 11. It was barely out of tune..just some unisons and a bit in the > treble and the lowest bass notes out a bit. Center was dead on. I > keep this piano at 430, which makes it very happy indeed and sounds > good there. > > went back at 2:45 to see how Paul and the pianos were doing.....just a > few unisons slightly out, one repeittion suffering slightly from the > increased humidity...more unisons out on the steinway than on the fp > actually....wanky partly rebuilt steinway, not too well done with some > funny sounding strings, but they only were willing to pay for touchup > tuning, so, oh well.. Checked everything anyway, since there was > lots of time. > > checked it quickly at 5:45.....just fine. lecture at 6, concert at > 7:30....touched up a couple unisons at intermission....piano staying > in excellent tune...house lights by the way, were increased, so it was > hotter than before the concert, and the room was noticeably hotter > from the bodies. > > So there you are, this is just a little Zuckerstein I modified, > reworked the stringing.e.g. It did a super job. Paul Badura Skoda > was thrilled. " Wunderbar!! Perfect Tuning! " > > Fortepianos are not inherently unstable unless the instrument is > either not well built or not well strung. Same with harpsichords by > the way. > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Robert A. Murphy" <Robert.Murphy at oberlin.edu> >> Geoff, >> >> "Stable" is the right word. I've found that stable relative humidity >> is the primary key to a stable fortepiano tuning. However, in >> concert/recording situations that feature these instruments (of which >> I've done enough to pull just about every hair out of my head...) the >> reality is that you must work with what you have. >> >> The next word that comes to mind is "grooming". We're talking about >> trying to reason with a moving animal here! Grooming the tuning >> requires a slightly different thought process (and technique/s) than >> locking-in a tuning on a modern concert grand. Here's a general >> approach I take to fortepiano/harpsichord tuning in concert >> situations. >> >> 1. Get the instrument(s) into the hall - at least back stage - no >> less >> than a full day before the performance (2 days is better). In a >> pinch, >> tuning an instrument in another room and moving it on stage within an >> hour or less of the performance can do nicely if the hall's >> environment >> is extreme from the where the instrument came from. >> 2. I agree with Steve - see if the stage crew can "go easy" on the >> spot lights shining directly on the instrument. >> 3. Approach tuning a fortepiano like you would a pitch-adjustment on >> a >> modern piano (i.e. go as fast as you reasonably can on the 1st and 2nd >> passes and refine things only on the 3rd and subsequent "groomings"; >> take mental notes of what the tuning as a whole is doing - is treble >> going sharp and bass flat, or vice-versa? - then compensate a little >> for this movement in your next pass) >> 4. On final pass, unisons are more important than octaves... or any >> other interval for that matter. If working on a 5-octave instrument, >> on the final pass switch to a T-hammer (if you've been using a >> goose-neck up to this point) and "flick" or tap the hammer back and >> forth to help lock-in the unisons. Also, when setting the string I >> find a quick double- or triple-strike on the key works better than a >> single hard blow. >> 5. When really pinched for time, concentrate your final passes on the >> temperament octave and then move from there to the the very top of the >> instrument. The tenor and bass can drift quite a bit without being >> unsettling to 99% of the audience. >> 6. Pitch is relative. If the instrument is drifting wildly, go with >> the median pitch that the instrument seems to be happiest with (any >> large pitch adjustment of over a couple of beats per second should >> have >> been done the day before the concert tuning). >> 7. Temperament is also relative. In a less-than-ideal humidity >> setting, chances are good that your tuning will pass through SEVERAL >> temperaments during the performance... >> 8. PRAY! >> >> Lastly, in your particular situation, if they can't give you a minimum >> of 1 hour per piano (40 minutes might suffice if you have a really >> stable RH) then see if they can move an instrument to the green room >> where you can tune while whatever else is scheduled is happening on >> the >> stage. Then move it back on stage just before your scheduled time and >> tweak it after you've gone through the other instruments, first. >> >> My 2-bits... >> Robert >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> --------------------------- >> Robert A. Murphy >> Piano Technician & Curator of Fortepianos >> Oberlin Conservatory of Music >> cell: 517.285.3269 >> shop: 440.775.8275 >> >> >> On Nov 14, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Stephen E Kabat wrote: >> >>> Geoff- I've found that temperature is a big factor. Try to kept >>> lights >>> down, and stabilize the temperature as much as possible. I don't >>> think >>> it's your tuning technique at all- I've found these instruments to be >>> less stable than harpsichords. >>> Good luck >>> Steve Kabat >>> -----caut-bounces at ptg.org wrote: ----- >>> >>>> To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org> >>>> From: Marcel Carey <mcpiano at videotron.ca> >>>> Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org >>>> Date: 11/11/2006 08:22AM >>>> Subject: [CAUT] RE : Fortepiano stability >>>> >>>> Hi Geoff, >>>> >>>> I'm no expert, but I find that some instruments don't respond so >>>> well >>>> to hard blows. If you find that your unisons are going sharp, you >>>> may >>>> be hitting too hard and creating stability problems. Or is it just >>>> the temperature change... This is a major factor with these >>>> instruments. >>>> >>>> Marcel Carey, RPT >>>> Sherbrooke, QC-----Message d'origine----- >>>>> D: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] De la part >>>>> de Geoffrey Pollard >>>>> Envo: 11 novembre 2006 07:37 > : College and University Technicians >>>>> Obje: [CAUT] Fortepiano stability >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi all from Oz, >>>>> >>>>> I'm tuning 3 fortepianos for the Mozart triple piano concerto >>>>> series >>>>> this week and next, here in Sydney, for the leading baroque >>>>> orchestra. Have just staggered home from Sat night after Friday >>>>> night's first concert. Tuning stability was not good - and I am >>>>> looking for any help from fellow CAUTs on techniques to nail >>>>> tunings >>>>> that will last more than one movement. I have about 2 hours >>>>> pre-concert for tuning - 40 mins each. I'm hitting hard, and the 3 >>>>> are becoming more obedient, but the arrival of 1.500 audience seems >>>>> to unsettle them! Unison and octave drift. Any advice from >>>>> fortepiano gurus out there? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Geoff Pollard >>>>> Sydney Conservatorium of Music >>>>> University of Sydney >>>>> >> > > > > From: "Robert A. Murphy" <Robert.Murphy at oberlin.edu> > Date: November 14, 2006 07:25:44 PM EST > To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] RE : Fortepiano stability > > > Geoff, > > "Stable" is the right word. I've found that stable relative humidity > is the primary key to a stable fortepiano tuning. However, in > concert/recording situations that feature these instruments (of which > I've done enough to pull just about every hair out of my head...) the > reality is that you must work with what you have. > > The next word that comes to mind is "grooming". We're talking about > trying to reason with a moving animal here! Grooming the tuning > requires a slightly different thought process (and technique/s) than > locking-in a tuning on a modern concert grand. Here's a general > approach I take to fortepiano/harpsichord tuning in concert > situations. > > 1. Get the instrument(s) into the hall - at least back stage - no > less than a full day before the performance (2 days is better). In a > pinch, tuning an instrument in another room and moving it on stage > within an hour or less of the performance can do nicely if the hall's > environment is extreme from the where the instrument came from. > 2. I agree with Steve - see if the stage crew can "go easy" on the > spot lights shining directly on the instrument. > 3. Approach tuning a fortepiano like you would a pitch-adjustment on > a modern piano (i.e. go as fast as you reasonably can on the 1st and > 2nd passes and refine things only on the 3rd and subsequent > "groomings"; take mental notes of what the tuning as a whole is doing > - is treble going sharp and bass flat, or vice-versa? - then > compensate a little for this movement in your next pass) > 4. On final pass, unisons are more important than octaves... or any > other interval for that matter. If working on a 5-octave instrument, > on the final pass switch to a T-hammer (if you've been using a > goose-neck up to this point) and "flick" or tap the hammer back and > forth to help lock-in the unisons. Also, when setting the string I > find a quick double- or triple-strike on the key works better than a > single hard blow. > 5. When really pinched for time, concentrate your final passes on the > temperament octave and then move from there to the the very top of the > instrument. The tenor and bass can drift quite a bit without being > unsettling to 99% of the audience. > 6. Pitch is relative. If the instrument is drifting wildly, go with > the median pitch that the instrument seems to be happiest with (any > large pitch adjustment of over a couple of beats per second should > have been done the day before the concert tuning). > 7. Temperament is also relative. In a less-than-ideal humidity > setting, chances are good that your tuning will pass through SEVERAL > temperaments during the performance... > 8. PRAY! > > Lastly, in your particular situation, if they can't give you a minimum > of 1 hour per piano (40 minutes might suffice if you have a really > stable RH) then see if they can move an instrument to the green room > where you can tune while whatever else is scheduled is happening on > the stage. Then move it back on stage just before your scheduled time > and tweak it after you've gone through the other instruments, first. > > My 2-bits... > Robert > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------- > Robert A. Murphy > Piano Technician & Curator of Fortepianos > Oberlin Conservatory of Music > cell: 517.285.3269 > shop: 440.775.8275 > > > On Nov 14, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Stephen E Kabat wrote: > >> Geoff- I've found that temperature is a big factor. Try to kept >> lights down, and stabilize the temperature as much as possible. I >> don't think it's your tuning technique at all- I've found these >> instruments to be less stable than harpsichords. >> Good luck >> Steve Kabat >> -----caut-bounces at ptg.org wrote: ----- >> >>> To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org> >>> From: Marcel Carey <mcpiano at videotron.ca> >>> Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org >>> Date: 11/11/2006 08:22AM >>> Subject: [CAUT] RE : Fortepiano stability >>> >>> Hi Geoff, >>> >>> I'm no expert, but I find that some instruments don't respond so >>> well to hard blows. If you find that your unisons are going sharp, >>> you may be hitting too hard and creating stability problems. Or is >>> it just the temperature change... This is a major factor with these >>> instruments. >>> >>> Marcel Carey, RPT >>> Sherbrooke, QC-----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] De la part >>>> de Geoffrey Pollard >>>> Envoyé : 11 novembre 2006 07:37 >>>> À : College and University Technicians >>>> Objet : [CAUT] Fortepiano stability >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all from Oz, >>>> >>>> I'm tuning 3 fortepianos for the Mozart triple piano concerto >>>> series this week and next, here in Sydney, for the leading baroque >>>> orchestra. Have just staggered home from Sat night after Friday >>>> night's first concert. Tuning stability was not good - and I am >>>> looking for any help from fellow CAUTs on techniques to nail >>>> tunings that will last more than one movement. I have about 2 hours >>>> pre-concert for tuning - 40 mins each. I'm hitting hard, and the 3 >>>> are becoming more obedient, but the arrival of 1.500 audience seems >>>> to unsettle them! Unison and octave drift. Any advice from >>>> fortepiano gurus out there? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Geoff Pollard >>>> Sydney Conservatorium of Music >>>> University of Sydney >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 16381 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20061115/120b1f31/attachment.bin
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