MessageHi all,
Some things come to mind.
1. Any leveling in front or in back of the dampers will be within (about) .003 of level at least that is the measurment I get when placing a piece of typing paper under the side of a level with the bubble in the middle. The bubble will move to the line on one side.
2. The foot of the level is the most important part of the tool. if it is rough or damaged one needs to refine the foot on a piece of emery paper on a flat plane of glass. I use 320 paper and watch the reflection off the foot as I work the foot.
3. The most precise leveling will be done with the dampers out, and the foot of the level directly on the strile point, with the foot 90% to the string length. like a T
Joe Goss RPT
Mother Goose Tools
imatunr at srvinet.com
www.mothergoosetools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Solliday
To: College and University Technicians
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
invented by Chris Robinson, originally sold by APSCO, now an improved version sold by Pianotek, the Straight Mate is a lever with a plastic roller that attempts to put a bend at the front termination point on all three strings of a unison at once. This improves tone and improves string level but I don't think anyone is currently claiming this is a string leveler the equal of the bubble level. Some techs use it to test the strength of their agraffes (just kidding) but I use it to set the bend generally at pitch, improve the level and then I refine things as Fred has indicated.
Chris Solliday
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Dierauf
To: 'College and University Technicians'
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
I would think that you would have to use the string plane itself. Anything else assumes that the plate is parallel to that 'something else'. BTW, what's a Straight Mate? I tried googling and only found a device for improving one's golf swing and lots of gay sites!
- Mark Dierauf
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Solliday [mailto:solliday at ptd.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:15 AM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
how about the keybed?
Chris Solliday
----- Original Message -----
From: dan l tassin
To: caut at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
AND ... ALL stages and floors are NOT alike.
SO ... Don't forget to "level" the piano before you use your bubble gauge.
Your strings might "tilt" in the direction of the Sun, just like the earth.
( aka : Summer Time -- "Global Warming" ) Performers "heat up" when
their strings aren't level. ( Remember = spell it backwards : L e v e L ).
This is very important to remember. How does one level the piano ??
Try a longer, straight ( carpenter's ) level across the majority of strings, or
from side-to-side across the rim of the piano ( just behind the music desk),
or on top of the stretcher. [ it'll be close enough to check it. ] Then,
Shims under the casters will work, or use a jack ( in the box ) on the low side.
( having a student hold it up on one side won't be stable enough.)
Do all of this ONLY --- if you want it to be "accurate." .... Etarucca !!
Dan Tassin, RPT
Asst. Piano Tech,
Vanderbilt, Blair SOM
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:40:22 -0400 "Becker, Lawrence \(beckerlr\)" <BECKERLR at ucmail.uc.edu> writes:
Joe-
I have a way that works for me to use your bubble gauge near the struts and where there isn't room between the dampers and v-bar. I use a short section of flat brass that has been squared at both ends. Stand it upright on the strings just in front of the damper, with the bottom of the level in solid contact with the top of the brass piece. I center the bubble, then pluck the strings. (Different than sitting the gauge on the strings and seeing where the bubble goes.) Trying to hold both pieces in one hand might feel a little fumbly at first, but if I can do it, so can most other folks.
Lawrence Becker, RPT
Piano Technician
College-Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati
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From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joe And Penny Goss
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:45 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
Hi Should have proofed
Their
The thinner vial is inserted into a hole drilled into the 1/4" body of the level with a window that helps make certain the tool is used in the same orientation each and every time.
The most often asked question?
"Does the piano need to be level?"
Yes, but only to determine if the bubble is in the window. If it is, level to the same spot.
If it is not, one needs to shim a leg.
With uneven agraff,
level the strings to the foot of the tool with the least slant, and file the hammer to mate the string.
At the struts often one or two unisons can not be leveled with the foot. Eric Schandall showed me how he lays the level on its side under the strut to reach these strings.
Eric has purchased 20 or so levels. I think he gives them away to folks who attend Steinway seminars and do not have one <g>
Joe Goss RPT
Mother Goose Tools
imatunr at srvinet.com
www.mothergoosetools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe And Penny Goss
To: College and University Technicians
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
Hi Lance,
To my knowledge string - hammer mating was never done on the level ( sorry ) that it is today.
It was more a mater of mating the hammer to whatever the strings were. Sorry if there was a problem when the una corda pedal was used.
It may have been Fazioli who was the first to use a level on their instruments. There level was / is
a piece of brass H channel with a vial in the top and the base cut so it will cover just one unison.
Very light and for me too light. When one plucks the string too hard to test for good mating, the level tends to bounce off the unison.
I introduced my first level at the Orlando national. It was way too light. Only 10 were made.
We settled on using a brass blank that weighs about 45 grams and with the vial almost 50 grams.
The only real change in the brass model was to use a thinner vial so that the tool would stand up a little better to dropage without the vial popping off.
Joe Goss RPT
Mother Goose Tools
imatunr at srvinet.com
www.mothergoosetools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: lafargue at bellsouth.net
To: 'College and University Technicians'
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
At the beginning of this thread I was concerned about an Estonia with tilted agraffes and uneven agraffe/string holes. It was to the point that I couldn't bend a string enough to compensate for good string/hammer mating. I have seen this on other pianos, but not this much.
It would be interesting to know who makes agraffes and are the plate makers aware of the importance of a level plane (duh, probably). With the increase in our world-wide market for parts now, I wonder who makes them.
The bottom line is that you cannot prep a piano to a high level without this to lay a foundation on.
Lance Lafargue, RPT
LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD
New Orleans Chapter, PTG
985.72P.IANO
lafargue at bellsouth.net
www.lpianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:53 AM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
I don't know where Steinway buys agraffes, but they now own Kelly Plate, and they have upgraded that facility to install a computer controlled drilling process. The spacing of agraffes in new pianos is MUCH better in the past two to three years. I suspect the square of the holes (hence lack of cant of the agraffes) is much better, too - I haven't noticed much trouble leveling strings on the few new instruments I have serviced. They used to have Kelly drill their plates. Bad idea.
All that said, perfection of hole drilling in cast iron is iffy at best. The unevenness of the material itself causes bits to chatter, at least in my experience. It's not like drilling brass.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm at unm.edu
On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Willem Blees wrote:
It sounds like we're talking about two different issues. One is the
level of the agraff itself, compared to the level of the of the plate.
What you claiming is that the plane of the agraff holes are not level
with the plate. Which could be caused by poor drilling, or that the
counter sink of the agraff hole is not flat, which will cause the
agraff to cant to one side when it is tightened.
The other issue is the holes in the agraff, which is what I was
referrring to. Although there might be very minute differnces in the
plane of the holes compared to the top of the agraff, I think the holes
themselves are level.
BTW, does Steinway make their own agraffs, or are they outsourced?
Wim
Willem Blees, RPT
Piano Tuner/Technician
School of Music
University of Alabama
Tuscaloosa, AL USA
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