You knew I couldn't resist. ;-) On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:35 PM, David Ilvedson wrote: > It is amazing what is expected for $15.75 and hour: On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:50 PM, Joe And Penny Goss wrote: > Wth Bennies thats about $30.00 PH. > More if you have a family that can use the ed bennies as well. > Actually the value of benefits depends greatly on where you live. Here in SC, the value of non-leave benefits is roughly 34% above the salary, so the $15.75 would convert to $21.11/hour. ( That's roughly $18,500/year short of $30/hour.) Then, some states, like Michigan and Indiana, pay just about everything except taxes, so there the value of benefits may be higher, but their salary ranges are lower as well (at least Indiana's is). But most states require substantial employee deductions to help pay for the bennies, so you've got to reduce that value of benefits by how much you have to contribute. (I'm paying roughly $700/month for those wonderful state benefits that a lot of you guys are under the impression are free on top of the salary) Tennessee is not one of the states that pays everything, but it doesn't look all bad. UT does pay the entire cost of retirement and it appears you have the choice between the standard state pension system and the optional TIAA-CREF plan - they pay for both. If you plan to retire there, put your money in the pension. From what I've studied, 401(k) style plans never have provided the level of benefit a pension provides. 401(k) plans are simply more portable, but the reason they're there? They save companies and states money, period. Employees see the value of the 401(k) growing and think they've got something until it's time to retire. When you retire, you get what's in the box, and the state or company isn't responsible for providing you any income beyond that. In SC, employees contribute 6.5% of gross pay to retirement, and the state "matches" with a contribution. I see that the health insurance premium deduction for full family at UT is roughly $230 a month (single just under $100). That comes out of the $15.75/hour. You have to watch your future with health insurance premiums. When I came here, it was something like $11/ month for employee, and $74/month for full family. A couple of years there, the state let the employee contributions increase to offset the full cost of the premium increases, so our premiums were jumping pretty substantially, and during years of state employee salary freezes. The standard health care plan family deduction in SC is now $293/month. If health insurance premiums keep skyrocketing, I can't imagine state governments continually absorbing the increased cost, especially when they're having to simultaneously deal with increases in fuel costs. So, states with low employee contributions will probably see change in time, and it wouldn't surprise me to see salary ranges not increase to offset it. Everybody likes to point out that holidays and earned annual and sick leave are attractive and of value. But that's all built into the salary. I know private sector techs making way more than most of us FTE CAUTs and working much less to make it. If you're earning $15.75/ hour at 2080 hours (assuming 40 week), and you get 13 paid holidays and can earn, say, 15 days per year of each of annual and sick leave, and you actually USE all 43 days of that every year, then you're actually making $18.87/hour working 1736 hours. It's not that big of a difference. Just remember that unused sick leave has absolutely no monetary value. Here, we can be paid for unused annual leave at retirement, but not more than 45 days. You don't make any more money by using it or not using "paid" leave. (Except that it's pretty common for me to have to moonlight on my annual leave time) If you're in a market which will support 20 piano tuning equivalents a week for 42 weeks, you're getting 10 full weeks (an extra week and a half) of whatever kind of leave you want to use it for, and even at $75 per tuning equivalent, you're grossing double the salary of this advertisement (and you don't have to moonlight after you put in your 40 hours!). Our state pays on 40 hours per week and only requires 37.5 as a full work week, so the value of leave is a little fuzzy because you only earn 7.5 hours for a full day of leave, but you're paid based on 8. So, IF you are in a state like SC, where you only have to work 37.5 hours for a 40 hour salary, and IF you can accrue AND USE ALL the leave as described above, then, with the value of non leave benefits, that $15.75/hour is POTENTIALLY $27.33/hour for 1606 hours a year. Clear as mud? Other states, like Kentucky, might pay for only 37.5 hours and require you to report 37.5 hours per week. So, a $15.75/hour salary for 37.5 hours would be $30,712.50, vs $32,760 for a 40 hour salary. Like I said, everybody's different. UT appears to be based on 40 hours per week, but I don't see whether a full work week is 37.5 hours or 40. UT does currently offer free tuition to the employee (9 hours/ semester) and reduced tuition (up to 50%) for dependents. That's better than SC, where the employee can take up to 3 hours if classroom space is available, but no dependent tuition benefits whatsoever, and I'll have three kids to put through college. My assistant dean told me about 5 years ago that reduced tuition is a benefit that's going away nationwide. I don't know. And, just FYI, the UT position salary range (pay grade 40, as of 9/1/05) tops out at $24.83/hour, or $51,645.36/year, so I suspect there should be some negotiating room. The minimum is $14.21/hour, so at least they're advertising the position at above minimum. But in case you're wondering about increases, these numbers did not change from 7/1/04. Obviously, the take home pay will vary with your deductions and number of dependents. I get about 70% of my gross, as married with 4 dependents. Since different states have different benefits packages and different income tax rates, etc., that percentage will vary from state to state. Also, it might be interesting to note that UTenn can't seem to make up their mind about whether they are really going to fill this position. It was first advertised through the mail about 2 months ago, then they decided to go back to a contract tech, now they're back to the FTE again. So, it could potentially be an unstable position in tough economic years, and it would be no fun to get dumped on your butt with not enough private business to sustain you all of a sudden. I'd certainly take that to the bargaining table if I went there. Wim is right about getting real raises. After 7 and 8 years, I have finally gotten what I consider reasonable back to back raises, considering I accepted what I was led to believe would be an entry level salary for the first year only. Last year, SC gave us 4% COL increase, and our new dean gave me an extra 5% (although I was at the point of quitting if I didn't get at least 10%). Even with that combined 9%, my salary was only 4% above my starting salary in 1998, when adjusted for inflation. I had to let this new dean and the faculty know I was serious. I was exhausted from having to do so much moonlighting and it was affecting my performance. This year SC gave us 3% and he's recommended an additional 7%, which is supposed to start with my next paycheck, and has verbally committed to similar combined 10% raises for the next two years as well. But then you get the caveat, "IF I have the money", which means, "as long as the economy is producing enough tax dollars." We'll see. I certainly wouldn't go to UT for $15.75 expecting that to improve to the top of the salary band any time soon. On Aug 16, 2006, at 10:34 AM, Horace Greeley wrote: > Most of the "strong plea"s I have made over the years have happened > along the lines of: "Well...gee, too bad this doesn't seem to be > working...guess it's time for me to move on." That is a real roll > of the dice. Yep. and the source of much stress and a lot of sleepless nights, and that doesn't do your performance any favors. On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:35 PM, David Ilvedson wrote: > How do these positions get filled? > Piano technicians are 99.5% self-employed, and are accustomed to the private sector. They set their own rates and make as much as they choose to work. We look at these as "dream jobs" and say, "I'd love to do that someday. Wouldn't that be great just to go to the same place every day, and have all those benefits?" I've had several techs say that to me, until I tell them what the position pays. Private sector techs may have dillusional ideas about the value of benefits and how much comes out of a paycheck that you have no say so about. It is a very different world from where you charge the customer and have every choice about how to spend the money. It's a very different world where your transportation and tool costs come out of your net pay, rather than your gross earnings -- where FICA and income taxes are assessed on your gross salary, rather than your net earnings. We assume that if we take these jobs, and work hard to prove ourselves, the pay will get better. After all, when I need to make more from my private business, I raise my rates. But we don't realize going in, that it just doesn't work that way in government work. In fact, since I've been here, the pay has remained about the same (adjusted for inflation), and the benefits have eroded every year. And so many of us take them, either because of poor health, or lack of retirement preparation, and the universities can use those as what amounts to blackmail leverage for keeping salaries low. Or the others of us take them as young, naive persons, eager to prove yourself, build a career, start a family, etc., and it takes us a while to realize we are going nowhere. So, if you're serious about wanting to be a FTE CAUT, you need to be prepared to either work a lot outside, or be able to live on just about nothing. I can tell you, you can't conceive of supporting a family with 3 children in decent school districts around Columbia on a take home pay of $2600/month. I suspect Knoxville is no different. David Ilvedson wrote: > I would be interested in what some benefit packages really > are...? For instance, what generally does retirement give? 1/2 > your salary + health insurance? If you have to work on the cheap, > what do you get when your done? > The easiest way to find the answer to that question is to go to the particular university's web site and surf the human resources and benefits pages. Everything you need to know can be found there, and if you can't find what you are looking for, there are email links to staff who have always been very friendly in helping me find answers to my questions. The retirement income COMPLETELY depends on the vehicle you choose, AND the annuity payment option you choose at retirement (employee only or joint-survivor). A pension (often called the "state retirement system" or something similar) will usually be some percentage of your final, or average of your final three years of salary, and dependent on how many years of service, and which annuity option payout you elect, etc. A TIAA-CREF or 401(k) retirement will simply depend on how well your investment portfolio performs. According to our state retirement web site, if you plan to be employed through a qualified retirement age or years of service, the pension vehicle has been substantially outperforming the TIAA-CREF as a retirement income producing vehicle. But the advantage of that type of vehicle is that all the money in that account, including the employer contribution, is YOURS from the moment funds are deposited and can be willed to your heirs and does not revert back to the state if you die early. With the pension, you are only entitled to the employee contribution plus interest earned. You can select a surviving beneficiary for the income, but I believe there are some stipulations, and for the most part, that decision cannot be changed after you start receiving payments. There are some exceptions. When I was hired, there was no choice for classified employees. We only qualified for the pension plan. But that rule has since changed. In the SC retirement system, you can qualify for full retirement with one of the following: age 65 or 28 years of service, OR for early retirement, age 55 and 25 years service, OR age 60 and at least 5 years service. Other systems are typically similar. One thing to remember. If you agree to work "on the cheap", bear in mind that your retirement contributions, and resulting retirement benefits are also "on the cheap". If you could have worked the same 25 years for twice as much money (and actually planned for retirement), depending on how your investments perform, you could wind up with more in the bank than the state retirement benefit is worth. I don't know anyone who has retired before 65, so I don't know about retirement health insurance costs, and I can't find that right now with a quick scan of the benefits site. Of course, Medicare picks up at age 65. I'll have kids in college until I'm about 60 so, if I stay here, I'll probably have to work long past my 25 years. Hope this helps. Jeff Jeff Tanner, RPT University of South Carolina -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20060816/9416d69c/attachment-0001.html
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