[CAUT] Baldwin SD (agraffe refurbishing)

[Tim Coates]

Hi Mark,

I too use the old fashioned type of string hook to lift strings.  Some 
things can't be improved.  But then others can.

I wanted to make sure I had the correct metal polish URL before I 
outlined Charley's method to refurbish agraffes.   I was introduced to 
the product by Tim Farley when I visited his shop in Madison WS this 
last fall.  Tim is a top level craftsman.

The beautiful finish Paul Revenko-Jones gets is actually quite easy to 
do with Charley's method (and not time consuming).

Before the process begins the agraffes are bead blasted.

First we use a polyethylene piece about 3 feet long with holes drilled 
into it to screw in  all the agraffes in a line.  The polyethylene is 
clamped to the work bench.  The agraffes have been reamed with the 
Pianotek bit to just remove the cut.  The abrasive cord (Micromark.com) 
is used to put the "U" into it.  It is extremely helpful to use an 
"Optivisor" to see accurately what you are doing.  Take a look at the 
hole with the "Optivisor" and you will see a roughness in the hole.   
Now for the polishing.

We use Wizards Metal Polish.  It is pretty neat stuff.  I'm sure others 
on the list have used it, as I was introduced to it by a piano shop.  
There are many uses for this product.  It is kind of a cross between 
cotton candy/0000 steel wool/polish.  Here is the URL, look for Metal 
Polish:  http://wizardsproducts.com\

Paul's use of rouge and Q-tips is very time consuming.  The Q-tips 
aren't strong enough and the rouge needs reapplication too often.

Charley found "Toosie Pop" sticks to be much more durable.  We also 
will use bamboo skewers.  The Wizards Metal Polish is wrapped around 
the point of the skewer or the candy stick.  A dremel tool or drill is 
then used and the Wizards Metal Polish conforms to the agraffe holes 
quite nicely.

Charley prefers to use the Q-tips with the cotton and Wizards Metal 
Polish woven together for a quick final run through to put a real high 
polish into the hole.

All the agraffes are cleaned with lacquer thinner and lightly sprayed 
with clear lacquer to protect them

The process takes about 3 hours.  Paul states it takes about 12 hours 
with his method.

The results speak for themselves as far as I am concerned.  No more 
buzzes.

Tim Coates

On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:39 AM, Mark Cramer wrote:

> Thanks Tim,
>
> I've just re-skimmed the article, and will read when time permits.
>
> My favourite string lifter is the type we make from old bass strings. 
> The
> hook is made from music wire, so it's thin enough to hook at the 
> agraffe,
> and draw back all the way to the tuning-pins, as you suggest. Good 
> idea!
>
> Though the agraffes in Paul's article are beautiful, I still haven't
> convinced myself the actually profile the string contacts is 
> significantly
> different than we get from shoe-shining (upwards motion) with a bicycle
> brake-cable or a cello string.
>
> i.e.: we control the radius of the "U" shape by the angle we shoe-shine
> with.
>
> As a matter of fact, this is the identical motion we use to restore the
> profile on a capo.
>
> Now the results we get have absolutely no comparsion, cosmetically 
> speaking,
> Paul's work, is like art!
>
> However, the string path itself, provinding the profile is right will 
> have
> any minute roughness  burnished out the first time we pull the string 
> to
> pitch. So the benefits of string contact area, ease of rendering, etc.
> should be much the same.
>
> Just MHO, and of you, Paul and myself, I'm the only lazy one who has 
> yet to
> prove my point by cutting the agraffe open.  :>)
>
> Tim, I think it would be great nonetheless if you would consider 
> sharing
> your (and Charlie's)
> method on the list.
>
> We don't always get replies to our posts, but there are many techs in a
> "read-only" capacity who would certainly enjoy and benefit from your
> experience. And I would like to give your method an honest try as well.
>
> best regards,
> Mark Cramer
> Brandon University
>
> PS As for Ron Overs... well Ron I think you make all of us feel like 
> total
> slackers (I-beam ribs, making your own soundboard clamps, your own 
> action,
> and now re-plating agraffes!!!).
>
> Would you mind easing up just a bit and let some of us catch up? ;>) 
> Thanks
> btw for hosting my clients on their recent trip to Sydney. They are 
> real
> piano enthusiasts and certainly enjoyed the visit.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org]On Behalf Of 
> Tim
> Coates
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: College and University Technicians
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Baldwin SD (agraffe refurbishing)
>
>
> Mark,
>
> If you haven't read Revenko-Jones' article you should re-read it.  He
> doesn't suggest a "V".   It is the "U" that works.   Yes, a "V" will
> turn into a "U" as soon as a string is put to it.  But a "U" doesn't
> change as quickly.  I don't get any buzzes when I restring now.  And
> without specially plated agraffes.  Read the article again.  Use an
> "Optivisor" to really look into an agraffe.  You don't need to cut one
> apart to see the inside of the hole (although we did when working out
> the procedures).  I really believe that since the "U" is eventually the
> shape, it is better to start there and not encounter the buzzes from
> the small residue left from the string cutting into the "V".
>
> The pulling of the string all the way from the agraffe back to the
> stringing underfelt is what makes a difference.  That is also how I
> lift strings on the speaking length of the string.  That's how I was
> taught.   Start at the agraffe:  lift and slide away from the agraffe.
> I don't just lift in front of the agraffe and call it good.  On all
> other pianos If you look at the string coming out of the agraffe to the
> stringing underfelt, it is sloping down.  I lift to make the string
> slope up out of the agraffe and slope up to the stringing underfelt
> almost with an "arch" to it.
>
> I have not noticed it affecting (did I use the right word here? effect
> or affect) the speaking length lifted area.
>
> Tomorrow I will be in the shop all day so I can get the website address
> for the polish used.  It is not the rouge most people use.  Also, you
> need to find a good candy store to stock up on "Tootsie Pops" and
> locate a grocery store that has "bamboo skewers".
>
> Tim Coates
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2006, at 1:46 PM, Mark Cramer wrote:
>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> I believe I said "beware of... stringing felt," and I certainly don't
>> "suggest" it. (but then my memory can be a fickle thing ;>)
>>
>> Lifting on the non-speaking side for voicing is an interesting thought
>> though, and we know it works at the capo.
>>
>> Here's a question I think is worth keeping in mind:
>>
>> When we lift string on the speaking side, do we picture the string
>> "bending"
>> or "rocking?"
>>
>> It's likely a little bit of both, which makes your point a good one, 
>> as
>> lifting the speaking length may have lowered the non-speaking length.
>>
>> As for refurbishing agraffes Tim, I agree.
>>
>> Another question comes to mind though:
>>
>> How long does that nice crisp "hour-glass" profile last? IOW, does the
>> "V"
>> shaped termination quickly become a "U" shape after a few tunings and
>> some
>> string-lifting?
>>
>> (recall the capo argument a few decades back; "shape it to a knife
>> edge and
>> let the string gently round it over")
>>
>> On that presumption, we've abandoned "recentering" to a crisp profile,
>> in
>> favour of the rounded profile we get from shoe-shining with abrasive
>> cord.
>>
>> IOW, having yet to saw through an agraffe to prove this speculation,
>> we feel
>> the rounded internal profile (optimally creating a seat wider than the
>> string diameter) is closer to the profile the string will impress into
>> the
>> brass over time. The thought being; this termination will last longer.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Mark Cramer,
>> Brandon University
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You and I have talked about the problem with the agraffes before.  I
>> have had limited success with lifting and thicker stringing felt as 
>> you
>> suggest.  The buzzes still come back.  Although,  I have started using
>> the lifting on the non speaking side of the agraffe as an important
>> voicing tool.  The strings really come to life.  I have posted to this
>> list before about lifting the non speaking segment but was totally
>> ignored.
>>
>> It doesn't take a scientific mind to try it.  Just someone who knows
>> not to pull the agraffe out of the plate.
>>
>> As I have stated several times the only sure fire method to get rid of
>> the agraffe buzzes is to properly refurbish them.
>>
>> Jim Busby:  I have not ignored your post about the methods used to
>> refurbish the agraffes.  I have not had time to put it together, as
>> there are some items I need to clarify with my subcontracted labor (a
>> PTG Associate).  At least at this point he is now willing to share his
>> methods.
>>
>> Tim Coates
>>
>