Otto and list, These are excellent reasons not to keep changing pitch on a piano. I use these same reasons when asked to change pitch. Then I let the party involved decide what to do. There have been many good solutions to this problem offered on this list. That includes offering the pitch change and any extra work involved for an extra fee or providing another piano - either one you have or a rental to be paid for by the visiting group (or whoever is willing to pay). My opinion is that insisting everybody use A-440 is not a good battle for a piano technician to fight out in the field. Our time and effort is probably better spent on other problems. Also, I think insisting that a visiting group change their pitch to match A-440 just because that is the official standard is not the best solution to the problem. Sincerely, Gary Mushlin, RPT On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 05:07 PM, Otto Keyes wrote: > Why be tossed to and fro on the waves of acoustic relativism? > Wherever I > have gone, we have discussed the issues thoroughly and come up with > numerous > solid reasons to maintain A-440: pitch instability, creation of false > beats, risk of breaking strings, added expense of pitch-raise & lower, > plus > subsequent stabilization problems mentioned before, though generally > imperceptible, damper function may suffer on wound strings with older > felts > (this may be a stretch, but is theoretically possible). Numerous other > things could be added to the list, all of which have a price tag > attached in > the long haul. > > Given the budget issues most institutions/venues face, this approach > (list > delivered in non-threatening, but solemn tones) will usually have the > desired effect. Monetary issues are potent persuaders, as well as > matters > which may have a direct effect on subsequent performances, ie: "While > we > may be able to get this thing stable by then, your (or your star > pupil's) > recital is X hours/days away. Do you want to risk that for the sake > of one > performer's one-night-stand in a venue, on a piano, you have to live > with > over the long haul?" This puts things in a personal light, & the > consensus > usually developes pretty quickly. Even the strong-willed head of a > department will usually see the light when faced with the prospect of > mutiny > from his/her underlings who see their success and credibility > threatened. > If the tech. cannot be sure of the stability of the instrument, it can > produce great anxiety in the performer, & that's the last thing they > need to > worry about on the eve of a performance. The vast majority of the > world > still tunes to 440. Those who tour should be able to adjust to this > fact, > not vice versa. > > Otto > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mushlin" <gmushlin@mindspring.com> > To: "College and University Technicians" <caut@ptg.org> > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: A 440 Hz Standard > > >> Hi Fred, >> >> Thanks for the excellent response, including a great explanation of >> problems wind players experience trying to "stretch" or "shrink" their >> instruments in order to tune to one note. The article or specification >> I read indicated that A-442 wind instruments are being made for and >> sold in this country as well. >> >> My point here is that for piano technicians who what to take a stance >> against anything other than A-440, the battle looks rather hopeless. >> >> Sincerely, >> Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT >> >> >> >> >> >> I get the impression that many piano technicians think that >> On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 02:06 PM, fssturm@unm.edu wrote: >> >>> Hi Gary, >>> I can confirm that wind instruments are made for A-442 and for >>> A-445. Our >>> oboist lived for several years in Europe, and got a new 440 >>> instrument >>> when he >>> returned to the US. He tells me that 442 is beyond the capability of >>> the 440 >>> instrument, that he could use shorter reed tubes and barely reach >>> that >>> pitch, but >>> the overall intonation would suffer (ie, you have changed the entire >>> length of the >>> instrument, thus the relationships when using the various keys will >>> have >>> changed). Our clarinetist tells me (in response to my asking him) >>> that >>> he has >>> various length barrels (a short section that goes between mouthpiece >>> and body) >>> which can set the pitch of the instrument. But he concurs about the >>> intonation >>> problems, and says if he had to play at 442 (or whatever) all the >>> time, he would >>> need a new instrument. Flautist agrees. Brass folks say the same to >>> varying >>> extents. Strings: not a problem. Does affect the timbre of the >>> instrument. Which is >>> why European orchestras (and many American) use the higher pitch. >>> Regards, >>> Fred Sturm >>> University of New Mexico >>> >>> Quoting Gary Mushlin <gmushlin@mindspring.com>: >>> >>>> It has been called to my attention that wind instruments are now >>>> being >>>> built to A-442. Does anyone have any any information to confirm >>>> this? >>>> >>>> Are all wind instruments being built at A-442, or just a select >>>> group? >>>> Or maybe my information is wrong. >>>> >>>> This certainly would complicate the problem. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 10:03 AM, stephen kabat wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim - I tune in Cleveland, Ohio, and the Cleveland Orchestra tunes >>>> to >>>>> A-440. >>>>> I also had the opportunity recently to ask the head tuner at the >>>>> Juillard School in NYC what they tuned to, and he told me that the >>>> head >>>>> of the school wanted A-441. From the way the tech described the >>>>> situation, it seems to me that he simply accepted the >>>> administrator's >>>>> decision rather than make waves. I can understand that, sortof. >>>> Having >>>>> said that, though, it seems to me that there really is a confusion >>>> in >>>>> the minds of musicians and orchestra administrators between what >>>>> constitutes pitch and what constitutes timbre. Several years ago, >>>> the >>>>> principal violist of the Philadelphia orchestra came here to do >>>> some >>>>> recording with our piano faculty head, and he wanted our piano >>>> raised >>>>> to >>>>> 442, because that's what he was used to in Philly. I told him(with >>>> >>>>> flame >>>>> suit at the ready!!) that we tuned to 440 because if it was good >>>>> enough >>>>> for George Szell it was good enough for me! He was surprised that >>>> the >>>>> Cleveland Orchestra tuned to 440; he thought it tuned to 442. I >>>>> assured >>>>> him that no, the Cleveland Orch. tuned to 440, thank you very >>>> much. >>>>> Sorry for the length of this post, but this topic is something >>>>> that gets my goat. Why is this (accepting standard pitch) so hard? >>>> I >>>>> wish someone would write a scholarly article, couched in the >>>>> appropriate >>>>> ivory-tower legalize, that would convince these people to leave >>>> the >>>>> pitch at 440 and tell the string players to deal with it. Maybe >>>> Owen >>>>> Jorgensen or someone else has already done so, and we could mail >>>> the >>>>> Administrators our thoughts. >>>>> A Petition, as it were. >>>>> Regards, Steve Kabat >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf >>>> Of >>>>> James Ellis >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:08 AM >>>>> To: caut@ptg.org >>>>> Subject: A 440 Hz Standard >>>>> >>>>> The National Symphony Orchestra from Washington DC is giving a >>>> concert >>>>> in >>>>> Oak Ridge TN on April 23. Their manager has informed the ORCMA >>>> manager >>>>> in >>>>> Oak Ridge that the piano must be tuned to A 442, and they even >>>> sent >>>>> general >>>>> instructions about how and when to do it. I'm just wondering: >>>> What >>>>> orchestras are there out there that play at various different >>>> pitches >>>>> other >>>>> than A=440 Hz, and what are those pitches? If 442 is better than >>>> 440, >>>>> why >>>>> then is 443 not better than 442, or 444, 445, 446, or even 447 not >>>> a >>>>> lot >>>>> better than any of the former? Once upon a time, I'm told, a yard >>>> was >>>>> equal to the distance between the king's nose and the tip of his >>>>> outstretched finger. I'm glad we got beyond that. Whatever >>>> happened >>>>> to >>>>> the idea of standards, anyway? It seems to me that some people >>>> just >>>>> have >>>>> to be different. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, Jim Ellis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >
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