Strings riding up (was Tuning stability)

David Ilvedson ilvey@sbcglobal.net
Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:23:36 -0800


Jumping in...

I don't routinely tap strings at the bridge unless I have some tonal or tuning difficulty.   For me, a light tap, 
can do wonders for the unfocused tone I have heard in, for instance, Japanese pianos.   What is happening?  I wish I knew.   Surely others have seated strings and watched the string visibly move down and the pitch drop, sometimes 4 cents?   And once seated the string won't visibly move down again.   For me, this is another test to see if seating is warranted.  Does the string move down when tapped.   I can hear the difference and that's all I need to know but I don't routinely seat strings before every tuning.   For some reason Asian pianos seem more prone to needing this...?

David I.



----- Original message ---------------------------------------->
From: David Skolnik <davidskolnik@optonline.net>
To: College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org>
Received: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:16:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Strings riding up (was Tuning stability)

>Ric -
>I've tried your procedure before, and again just now, just to remind myself 
>why it doesn't entirely work.  First, if the downbearing is positive but 
>slight, the difference in height between the string groove and the surface 
>the string would rest upon in its modified position could be enough to 
>cause an error.  Also, at least when I did it just now, by shifting the 
>string to the opposite side of the rear bridge pin, it crosses the planed 
>surface of the adjacent string, towards the bass, which could further alter 
>your reading.  In other words, if it's really close, you can get a false 
>positive, or maybe even a false negative.  If, on the other hand, you are 
>of the opinion that less than a certain amount of downbearing showing is 
>about as bad as none at all, the method can be useful.  It's just that so 
>much of what I see falls into the close range.

>One of my concerns, stemming from the original (recent) discussion, begun 
>by Jeff Stickney (3/25/04 Tuning Stability) was what appeared to me to be 
>an unwarranted shifting of responsibility for negative front bearing onto 
>the process of string seating.  I think some of the alternative culprits
>that have come up in my discussion with Ron have been quite illuminating, 
>for me at least.

>With regard to your observation that tapping can have a beneficial, if 
>temporary effect, what do you think is happening to initially cause the 
>distortion and how do you think  tapping solve it?

>Regards,

>David Skolnik



>At 08:19 PM 4/4/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>>Hi Folks... just in for a quickie on sunday nite and had to reply to this 
>>as its one of my favorite subjects.
>>
>>Next time you run into one of those strings that <<need tapping>> or for 
>>whatever reasons find itself up the pins a bit and slightly removed from 
>>the bridge, do the following.
>>
>>Loosen the string and pull it off the back bridge pin so the it runs a 
>>straight line over the bridge instead of weaving through the bridge 
>>pins.  Leave the string where it is usually relative to the front bridge 
>>pin.  Then bring it up to tension and take real close look at the 
>>interface between the bridge and string.  If there is contact all the way, 
>>then you have positive bearing and tapping the string would have lasting 
>>effect.  If on the other hand there is no contact then you have the 
>>situation Ron Nossaman goes on about, which David Love echoed in his last post.
>>
>>Some would have it that when the strings find themselves up the pins as it 
>>were.. that the later is always the case.  My experience is othewise and I 
>>find tapping a usefull proceedure when used judiciously and 
>>carefully.  And even in the case of the latter... tapping can be a usefull 
>>tool in cleaning up a pianos sound for short term situations such as 
>>concerts, recording sessions... etc.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>RicB
>>
>>Ed Sutton wrote:
>>
>>>Of course, neither of us has definitive documented proof of our 
>>>positions.  I, at least, do not.  While this discussion might seem too 
>>>abstract to warrant this amount of time and space on this list, it 
>>>disturbs me to think that the information we disseminate might not be as 
>>>solid as we would like to believe.  Of course, the other disturbing 
>>>thought is that I might be totally wrong and that my subscribing 
>>>privileges haven't yet been revoked!
>>>
>>>David Skolnik
>>>Where is that student with the high-speed video project who was mentioned 
>>>during our MOI discussions?
>>>We need some high speed microsopic videos of string terminations in action!
>>>
>>>Ed Sutton
>>
>>
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