Pinning and Tone

Isaac sur Noos oleg-i@noos.fr
Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:03:04 +0100


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Fred ,

I don't see the radius as a curve, and have not find 2.5 centred on
the shank to give a very good checking, in fact too round for my
desire, the checking surface is then too high on the tail or the
checking is too hard, if the bottom of the tail is used. Then I had to
reset all the backcheks, so I am not convinced with this process
(Spurlock instructions)


Indeed when looking at Steinway hammers, I see the round part to be
centred somewhere above the shank, and even then I am not sure (like
you) it is a pure radius.

I usually prefer doing the tail shaping with the hammers hang and all
hold together in a special setup (a large gig in steel), then I round
the tails with a sanding machine and finish by hand.

Talking about checking, for Steinway, I've been said also that low
checking add power, but high checking give repetition, and checking to
the highest without the tails rubbing when one pushes firmly on the
hammer head while testing, give a checking around 14 mm, not less.

On Bechstein hammers the checking can be made really high, then
probably it is not that good to go too high. On the other hand
Bechstein action are not optimum, so high checking helps them also .

Here is a pic of 1980 Steinway hammers :  at evidence this is not a
simple curve, and the centre of the shape is not on the shank.

Any comment appreciated .

Best Regards.




-----Message d'origine-----
De : caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de
fssturm@unm.edu
Envoyé : vendredi 31 octobre 2003 01:45
À : College and University Technicians
Objet : RE: Pinning and Tone

   There are two things being said in this discussion. One is that
there can be a
perceived loss of power on repetition with high check, due to how
close the
hammer is to the string at the moment when the jack is re-engaged.
I've never
heard that complaint myself, but  I'm sure it's within the realm of
possibility, and
Ed Foote confirms that he has had such a response from a performer.
(The
performer has the option of altering his/her technique, allowing the
key to rise a
bit more, and will then get the same power. And the key would have
risen the
same as it would have to rise were the check lower - or at least
fairly close. But
by all means we should meet the performer's desires if possible.).
   The other observation has to do with geometry of tail versus check.
Certainly
at the limits of high checking, there will be a point at which there
will be drag on
a hard blow. But that point will vary depending on the geometry
involved. If you
have optimum geometry, you can get 3/8" check without having the drag
problem - I'm convinced of this through experience. What exactly is
that
geometry - or are there a few variations?
   Roger Jolly tells me that 2 1/2" radius on the tail, together with
something like
70 degrees for the check is optimum. And Roger is usually right about
this sort
of thing (except for the rare instances when he is wrong <g>).
Steinway is using
68 degrees for the check, which keeps the top of the check away from
the tail a
bit longer, or so I picture it to myself. However, when I was told the
radius was 4
1/2", I thought that would mean the bottom portion of the tail would
tend to graze
on the way up, and would dig in on the way down, rather than creating
a good
friction bond. Hence my hypothesis that perhaps they do machine to a
radius of
4 1/2", but from a point above the shank (which would kind of give you
the same
angle at the bottom of the tail as a far shorter radius from a point
on the shank,
and might actually give better clearance on the way up).
   In general, according to my understanding, a smaller radius on the
tail and a
more acute angle for the check will yield higher checking without
drag. But at
some point that falls apart, because the check and tail are at less
and less
optimum mating angle when they come together on rebound.
   Does all this make sense, or am I off on a shaky limb here? And is
an arc of a
circle the optimum shape for a tail, or is there a variant that would
work better? (I
am thinking of a mild parabolic curve - starts like a circle segment,
but the curve
gets steeper). Or is what I have suggested Steinway may be doing
another
wrinkle that works?

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico

Quoting Jim Busby <jim_busby@byu.edu>:

> List
>
> I need to clarify that Richard Davenport says it engages slightly
> when
> the backcheck is close (high checking) on hard blows. As I
understand
> it
> if it is regulated that close the tail may skim the surface on a
> hard
> blow because of shank flex. Could be. I'd like to see his
> presentation
> and those films.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Busby BYU
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
> Of
> Jim Busby
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:57 PM
> To: College and University Technicians
> Subject: RE: Pinning and Tone
>
> Alan,
>
> According to Richard Davenport the backcheck does slightly involve
> the
> tail if you look at those high speed tapes of it. I'd like to see
> it,
> but he says that higher checking does result in less power as
> Richard
> said, and Ric. clarified for me.  As Ric said, more drop = slower
> rep,
> and higher checking = (slightly) less power. I agree.
>
> I misunderstood Richard and thought he meant higher checking would
> give
> slower rep speed but after Ric. pointed out my misreading I re-read
> it
> and Richard was actually very clear. My "Oh" meant "oh, do I feel
> dumb
> that I didn't read it right the first time."  Sorry if anyone read
> more
> than that into it. I'm not mean spirited at all and would never
> intentionally offend anyone.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Busby
>
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