standards

[Greg Newell]

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Richard and list,
         I find it very interesting to read your comments regarding "taste"=
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in tuning. It's long been an opinion of mine that the instrument itself=20
dictates how it should be tuned. While various octave stretching practices=
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are used it would seem that something is always compromised in some way.=20
Every time I have strayed from what I've always done aurally and now in=20
combination with TuneLab something just isn't right to my ears. Much debate=
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could be done on this issue of taste I am sure. I'll be interested to hear=
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what comes of this.

Greg



At 03:55 PM 5/12/2003, you wrote:

>Phil & All,
>
>Phil Bondi wrote:
>
>"In my opinion, the larger and better scaled the piano, the more options=20
>you have for stretching and narrowing, depending on taste"
>
>This is an interesting statement and gets at the heart of what I'm trying=
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>to explore.  First of all it's my belief that the better the piano, the=20
>more clearly the physics of the scaling comes through and hence the more=20
>clearly the piano itself dictates what it wants.  "Taste" has very little=
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>to do with it, in my opinion.  With the sophisticated aural checks, and=20
>ETD's available to professional piano technicians, it seems to me that it=
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>should be possible to define a standard for concert grand tuning that=20
>minimizes resorting to "taste".
>
>My arguement against using customer or even technicians' "taste" as a=20
>criteria is that it's so vague.  I think it opens the door for=20
>imprecision.  If I ask whether a person tunes pure 5ths in the center of=20
>the piano, that seems to me to be a fairly precise parameter and it has=20
>consequences when tuning the upper and lower extremes of the piano.  If I=
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>ask whether a person likes the 3rds, 10ths, and 17ths to increase in speed=
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>by an amount equal to the difference between similar temperament thirds,=20
>then that seems like a precise way of describing how the 3rd, 10th and=20
>17th compare.  Unfortunately most technicians say they have to get faster,=
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>and leave it at that, end of description.
>
>Using just those basic tools above, takes the tuning to the last octave=20
>and 1/2.  If I ask whether a person tunes the last octave and 1/2 using=20
>pure 4:1 double octaves, that again is fairly precise, especially if one=20
>uses an ETD set to match the double octave below.  Tuning the double=20
>octave with a treble stretch as descrbed above, seems to me to be the=20
>widest stretch that a piano can accomodate and be consistently tuned.=20
>There simply are no good checks for the last 1/2 octave 7 other that 17ths=
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>and double octaves.  Checks that rely on triple octaves and arpeggios=20
>don't seem to me to be as accurate and therefore make the top octaves=20
>inconsistent.  In addition tuning octave 7 as pure double octaves to the=20
>notes below octave 7, enhances the singing area of the piano because  the=
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>notes in octaves 4 & 5 are supported by sympathetic strings in octave 7.
>In terms of satisfying customers' "taste" what is that?  If a person=20
>doesn't tune professionally, what real criteria are there for "taste?"=20
>Without an accurate description of a set of tuning criteria, what is taste=
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>but guesswork.  Using "taste" as a criterion opens pandoras box to=20
>untrained ears who, like untrained artists, can say, "I don't know=20
>anything about art, but I know what I like."  Or there will be technicians=
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>who develop their own "standard" in the vacuum of no standard.
>
>What a person does with smaller grands, spinets and consoles is one thing=
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>(we all know there are often big compromises that have to be made), but=20
>concert grands announce how they want to be tuned.  At least that's my=20
>thesis here and I'm trying to find out if I'm a lone wolf on this, or=20
>whether we can really determine a more clearly defined concert grand=20
>tuning that doesn't rely on "taste."
>
>
>Richard West
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
>

Greg Newell
Greg's piano Fort=E9
mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net=20

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