Yama-help, s.v.p.!

[Mark Cramer]

With Terry Beckingham along for a second set of eyes and ears, I just had
another look at the G-2 action. No "ticking." Typical!! :>(

I put the action on the bench anyhow and checked the following:

balance rail holes; tight? yes; lifting the key from both ends straight up
and down, tight, but no squeek, not that I discount the possibility, and
certainly will clean and teflon these later.

removed a wippen/ checked the loop/spring contact: yes the loop is
blackened, typical of contact with brass. The spring slips very smoothly
along the cord, though again, I will not discount the possibility.

removed the rep. lever, checked all glue joints, pinning etc; all okay,
however I don't know that the wippen I selected ever "ticked" anyhow. (!?)

I actually WAS able to duplicate the "ticking" sound (to Terry and I's best
recollection anyways) by disengaging the tang (short arm of the spring) from
it's slot right next to the coil, then applying pressure to the long arm
sufficient for it to "pop" back in; "tick!"

Though I can't be conclusive here either. In order for the 'tang' (everyone
happy with this term?) to slip in and out of it's slot, the rep. spring coil
would have to be so weak it would be non-functional. The hook wouldn't reach
the loop.

No, there was no corrosion in the spring slot, not one bit.

I could also produce a "ticking" sound by flicking the "un-looped" spring
hook against the rep. lever, as though the loop or hook were too long. As
mentioned, I had found this problem in a couple wippens, however the "tick"
occurs with the key at rest, or at the beginning of the key-stroke, so it
ain't the culprit.

One other thought: when swinging "cranky" flange centres (like the ones Wim
was talking about), i.e.: old centres that should be loose, but are so
dirty, etc. that they're tight, I have heard the odd one make a ticking
sound, you can actually feel it tick when you swing it.

D'ya know what I mean?

I wonder if I may have some "cranky wippen flanges? Climactic change might
explain why the ticks "come and go," and if they are sluggish enough not to
fall completely to rest i.e.:"rotate past the point of ticking" with the
weight of the hammers/shanks off, this might explain the spontaneous
"ticking" shortly after I had lowered (not dropped) the hammers /shanks back
to rest?

Just a theory.

thanks for all the suggestions and your interest in my dilemna. I certainly
appreciate it!

Mark Cramer,
Brandon University




-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Gurnee [mailto:dgurnee@humboldt1.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:30 PM
To: Mark Cramer
Subject: Re: Yama-help, s.v.p.!


Any actin with spring loops may produce clicks because of high static
friction higher than dynamic friction especially with very slow movement.
It can help to clean the spring hook by waggling the loop on the spring hook
and may be cured by applying a very small amount of liquid VJ lube to the
contact point.  Clean loop and spring hook should be can be a permanent fix
but it may not be possible to tell when that cleanness is present.

Daniel Gurnee, RPT HSU Tech. Retired
7127 Humboldt Hill Rd.
Eureka, CA 95503-8105
707-442-3158
<dgurnee@htan.org>
<dgurnee@humboldt1.com>


on 1/3/03 15:10PAM, Mark Cramer at Cramer@BrandonU.CA wrote:

> I'm guessing most everyone in this group can appreciate the difference
> between actually 'fixin sumthin' as opposed to making the symptoms
> disappear.
>
> You will then appreciate my 'dilemna of the day.'
>
> I had promised to make the phantom 'clicking' within the low-brass prof's
> 1960's G-2 'go away,' sometime over the holiday season,
>
> The 'clicking' is not of the loose center-pin or hammerhead type, but
rather
> like the "rep. spring  caught in a sticky, gunky slot,
suddenly-breaks-free"
> type. You will get this typically the first time you play a note, after
the
> piano has sat un-played for awhile. However, once the note has been played
> that first time (and clicked), it will likely not click again that day, no
> matter how often it is played.
>
> This is why I thought rep.springs,.. sound like I'm on the right track, so
> far?
>
> In my mind, it would be as simple as polishing the springs, then cleaning
> and re-graphiting the spring slots.
>
> Only one problem, (in words I once heard uttered by a small-town cafeteria
> waitress, with singular small-town charm); "IT DON'T GOT NONE!"
>
> No repetition spring slots that is (not sauerkraut, as I had inquired of
the
> reuben sandwich I was attempting to order), the springs are of the
set-screw
> adjustment type and the hook is captured by a cloth loop. Schwander style,
I
> believe (the wippens, not the sandwich).
>
> In any case, I repaired any clicks I could find; hammer-heads, etc., even
> two rep. springs where the hook was so long as to strike the base of the
> wippen and make a click. Sadly though these were not the 'clicks' I was
> after.
>
> Then, as I lowered the shanks to rest after tefloning the knuckles, the
> "clicks" started, spontaneously, one here, one there, etc. (actually more
> like 'ticks' than 'clicks')
>
> It has to be the rep. springs, doesn't it? But what are they clicking
from;
>
> coils overlapping?
>
> how the adjustment screw bears against the spring?
>
> The springs don't seem over-tensioned, and the hammer-flange pinning seems
> quite free.
>
> Anyone encountered this before, I welcome your input.
>
> many thanks,
> Mark Cramer,
> Brandon University
>
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