From dm.porritt@verizon.net Sat Aug 2 14:19:14 2003 From: dm.porritt@verizon.net (David M. Porritt) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 08:19:14 -0500 Subject: Files archives Message-ID: <200308020819140740.00259284@outgoing.verizon.net> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment We just got an email from Andy Rudoff stating that the archives at http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/files have been fixed. Searching the archives now finds what you are after. It was "broken" or something for a few days. dave _____________________________ David M. Porritt dporritt@mail.smu.edu Meadows School of the Arts Southern Methodist University Dallas, TX 75275 _____________________________ ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/3d/5d/dc/43/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dmckech@ithaca.edu Mon Aug 4 15:56:35 2003 From: dmckech@ithaca.edu (Don McKechnie) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 07:56:35 -0700 Subject: Have a Fazioli? Message-ID: <3F2E7423.7040004@ithaca.edu> Anyone know where he can find more Faziolis? I have to try attending this one! Don http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/nyregion/03SEAR.html?ex=1060994152&ei=1&en=0c3aaa6763886d8c From Cramer@BrandonU.CA Tue Aug 5 16:45:16 2003 From: Cramer@BrandonU.CA (Mark Cramer) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:45:16 -0500 Subject: Isaac's freshly-steamed heels Message-ID: I had my assistant Scott try Isaac's method of applying a whiff of steam to heel-cloth prior to stretching it into place for glueing. It worked very nicely... thanks Isaac! Also, for the first time, allowed him to use CA glue (Heaven forbid!) and accelerator to install the cloth. There was no evidence of glue wicking through the thick cloth, and the wippens belong to an instrument which will be able to retire long before I can! :>) Mark Cramer Brandon University From Wimblees@aol.com Thu Aug 7 03:09:56 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 22:09:56 EDT Subject: Fwd: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos Message-ID: <3b.3be06892.2c630ef4@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment --part1_3b.3be06892.2c630ef4_alt_boundary Can anyone on this list give Marty some answers. Wim In a message dated 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time, pianodoctor@adelphia.net writes: > Subj: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos > Date: 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time > From: pianodoctor@adelphia.net > To: experts@ptg.org > Sent from the Internet > > > > I have 2 pianos sitting next to each other. Both new Yamaha P600 45`` > pianos. One has a much lighter touch (action) than the other. Can you give me > some reasons why, and is there any adjustment that can be made to stiffen up the > lighter action? > > Thank You. > Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA > --part1_3b.3be06892.2c630ef4_alt_boundary An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/44/ed/4b/5a/attachment.htm --part1_3b.3be06892.2c630ef4_alt_boundary-- ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment An embedded message was scrubbed... From: pianodoctor@adelphia.net Subject: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:10:43 -0600 Size: 1620 Url: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/ea/7f/cf/fc/attachment.eml ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From atodd@UH.EDU Thu Aug 7 14:55:48 2003 From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:55:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos In-Reply-To: <3b.3be06892.2c630ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030807085226.00ac0090@orpheus.music.uh.edu> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wim, My first thought would be damper spoon adjustment and/or damper spring strength, assuming that blow, key height & dip are comparable. Avery At 10:09 PM 8/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone on this list give Marty some answers. > >Wim > >In a message dated 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time, >pianodoctor@adelphia.net writes: > >>Subj: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos >>Date: 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time >>From: pianodoctor@adelphia.net >>To: experts@ptg.org >>Sent from the Internet >> >> >> >>I have 2 pianos sitting next to each other. Both new Yamaha P600 45`` >>pianos. One has a much lighter touch (action) than the other. Can you >>give me some reasons why, and is there any adjustment that can be made to >>stiffen up the lighter action? >> >>Thank You. >>Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA ______________________ Avery Todd, RPT Moores School of Music University of Houston Houston, TX ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/2f/38/0f/75/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Thu Aug 7 09:17:58 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:17:58 Subject: Fwd: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos In-Reply-To: <3b.3be06892.2c630ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030807081758.013cad00@accesscomm.ca> Hi Wim, It was apparently a damper timing difference. At 10:09 PM 8/6/2003 EDT, you wrote: > > Can anyone on this list give Marty some answers. > > Wim > > In a message dated 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time, >pianodoctor@adelphia.net writes: > > Subj: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos > Date: 8/6/03 3:11:02 PM Central Daylight Time > From: pianodoctor@adelphia.net > To: experts@ptg.org > Sent from the Internet > > > > Can you give me some reasons why, and is there any adjustment that can >be made to stiffen up the lighter action? > > Thank You. > Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA > > > > Return-Path: Received: from rly-xi03.mx.aol.com (rly-xi03.mail.aol.com >[172.20.116.8]) by air-xi03.mail.aol.com (v95.12) with ESMTP id >MAILINXI32-4d53f3160c7367; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:11:02 -0400 Received: from >bridget.rudoff.com (bridget.rudoff.com [206.168.112.96]) by > rly-xi03.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXI37-4d53f3160c7367; >Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:10:48 -0400 Received: from bridget.rudoff.com >(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bridget.rudoff.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP >id h76KAid12964; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:10:44 -0600 Received: (from >apache@localhost) by bridget.rudoff.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h76KAh212952; > Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:10:43 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:10:43 -0600 >Message-Id: To: experts@ptg.org From: pianodoctor@adelphia.net Subject: >[Experts] lighter action in same model pianos X-BeenThere: experts@ptg.org >Precedence: list Reply-To: pianodoctor@adelphia.net, experts@ptg.org >Sender: experts-bounces@ptg.org Errors-To: experts-bounces@ptg.org >X-AOL-IP: 206.168.112.96 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: >text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have 2 >pianos sitting next to each other. Both new Yamaha P600 45`` pianos. One >has a much lighter touch (action) than the other. Can you give me some >reasons why, and is there any adjustment that can be made to stiffen up the >lighter action? Thank You. Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA >_______________________________________________ experts list info: >http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/experts >_______________________________________________ caut list info: >http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no Thu Aug 7 22:11:32 2003 From: Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no (Richard Brekne) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:11:32 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030807085226.00ac0090@orpheus.music.uh.edu> Message-ID: <3F32C084.F6F997D3@grieg.uib.no> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Very usual are damper spring strength, how soon the dampers engage, and even jack return springs. Hammer butt springs can get into the picture slightly, friction of course. Outside of that you are going to have to look at key weighting and leverage... tho Yamaha should be pretty consistant on those points from piano to piano. You might also check to see (as a long shot) if for some reason the upper action mounts are screwed in equally on both instruments. Not likely... but you never know. RicB >> >> >> > >> > I have 2 pianos sitting next to each other. Both new Yamaha P600 >> > 45`` pianos. One has a much lighter touch (action) than the other. >> > Can you give me some reasons why, and is there any adjustment that >> > can be made to stiffen up the lighter action? >> > >> > Thank You. >> > Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA >> > ______________________ > Avery Todd, RPT > Moores School of Music > University of Houston > Houston, TX -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/33/6d/76/bd/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Thu Aug 7 16:25:09 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 15:25:09 Subject: Fwd: [Experts] lighter action in same model pianos In-Reply-To: <3F32C084.F6F997D3@grieg.uib.no> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030807085226.00ac0090@orpheus.music.uh.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030807152509.0143b430@accesscomm.ca> Hi Ric, It was infact early dampers on one piano compared to the other. The gentleman wrote me and told me so. At 11:11 PM 8/7/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >Very usual are damper spring strength, how soon the dampers engage, and >even jack return springs. Hammer butt springs can get into the picture >slightly, friction of course. Outside of that you are going to have to look >at key weighting and leverage... tho Yamaha should be pretty consistant on >those points from piano to piano. You might also check to see (as a long >shot) if for some reason the upper action mounts are screwed in equally on >both instruments. Not likely... but you never know. RicB > > Can you give me some reasons why, and is there any adjustment that can >be made to stiffen up the lighter action? Thank You. >Marty Cipolla, Locust Grove, VA > > ______________________ >Avery Todd, RPT >Moores School of Music >University of Houston >Houston, TX > -- >Richard Brekne >RPT, N.P.T.F. >UiB, Bergen, Norway >mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no >http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html >http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html > Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From Wimblees@aol.com Thu Aug 7 23:02:18 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:02:18 EDT Subject: budget Message-ID: <15f.24346ae1.2c64266a@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Good news, bad news We have a new chair at UA, and today I met with her. Among topics we discussed was a budget. I haven't had one for the past two years, so when she asked know how I want, she didn't like "as much as I can get". Then she asked how much other schools get. UA has 74 pianos, 2 h'chords and a p'forte. What are some budgets in comparable schools? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/39/88/62/8d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From fssturm@unm.edu Thu Aug 7 23:38:45 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:38:45 -0600 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <15f.24346ae1.2c64266a@aol.com> References: <15f.24346ae1.2c64266a@aol.com> Message-ID: <1800686.1060274325@dhcp-40-0945.unm.edu> Hi Wim, Here's something from my archives (you can find the thread, which was parts/supplies budgets, by checking the caut list archives). Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico PS My own current budget (allocated to me from the department) is a whopping $600/year for about 80 pianos and 3 or 4 harpsichords (or hso's). This is supplemented by the music department billing other University entities for my services - the large performance hall, dance, theater, president's office, etc. This augments the figure to about $2500/year. My chair tells me he is almost certain the upper administration will approve our request for a new course fee of $5/credit hour for all music dept courses, targeted at pianos. This will generate $40,000 to $60,000/year, but the bulk will go to piano replacement. Archived post, 5/4/99: Recently, I posted a querry to the list regarding annual budgeted amounts for parts/supplies/tools/etc at other institutions of higher learning (and lower funding :) I recieved approx. 8 responses. Few of these budgets were identical in the types of expenses they covered but I ran a per/piano average as best I could. I would have loved to include the Univ of Michigan budget with its, as yet, un-plumbed depths; it would have done wonders for the average! For what its worth, the extremely (!) un-scientific average came to: $55 per piano (per year). (my thanks to all who replied to my querry. The above figure looked mighty impressive next to WSU's figure of $6/piano! We'll see if it turns the right heads here.) Regards, Alan Crane, RPT School of Music Wichita State University crane@twsuvm.uc.twsu.edu crane@twsuvm.uc.twsu.edu --On Thursday, August 7, 2003 6:02 PM -0400 Wimblees@aol.com wrote: > Good news, bad news > > We have a new chair at UA, and today I met with her. Among topics we > discussed was a budget. I haven't had one for the past two years, so when > she asked know how I want, she didn't like "as much as I can get". Then > she asked how much other schools get. > > UA has 74 pianos, 2 h'chords and a p'forte. What are some budgets in > comparable schools? > > Wim From A440A@aol.com Fri Aug 8 00:13:20 2003 From: A440A@aol.com (A440A@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:13:20 EDT Subject: budget Message-ID: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> Fred writes: << My chair tells me he is almost certain the upper administration will approve our request for a new course fee of $5/credit hour for all music dept courses, targeted at pianos. This will generate $40,000 to $60,000/year, but the bulk will go to piano replacement.>> AAAAAAARRRRGGG!!! I see this all too often! Several years ago, I found that a major state university had received the funds to purchase a new Steinway D. They had two older ones, one of which had been horribly "rebuilt" about 5 years before, and was unusable. The other was in poorly regulated and voiced limbo. I tried to tell them that for the price of a new one, the old one could be completely, (and I mean COMPLETELY) restored and they would still have $50,000 left over to bring others up to par. It didn't wash, they had been convinced that a NEW one was the only way to have the 'genuine' experience. I just returned from that school where I spent time with the "other" piano. I repinned the hammerline and assorted whippen problems, reshaped hammers, worked over the stringing, regulated, tuned and voiced. When I was done, the first faculty member that played it said, "Wow, I wish our new piano played and sounded this good"! Maybe we can figure out a way for you to restore the really bad one". As Caut members, we really need to get our sales pitch down to a science so that schools can be made to understand that replacement of better brands of pianos is far more expensive than restoration, and the results are NOT superior. It blows my mind to see a school turn in a handful of worn out Steinways in trade-in on a like number of new ones. That is a great deal for the factory, but the school is getting taken to the cleaners. Regards, Ed Foote RPT www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality From hoffsoco@martin.luther.edu Fri Aug 8 12:36:30 2003 From: hoffsoco@martin.luther.edu (Conrad Hoffsommer) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 06:36:30 -0500 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <15f.24346ae1.2c64266a@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030808063224.00c7a5d0@pop.luther.edu> At 18:02 8/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Good news, bad news > >We have a new chair at UA, and today I met with her. Among topics we >discussed was a budget. I haven't had one for the past two years, so when >she asked know how I want, she didn't like "as much as I can get". Then >she asked how much other schools get. > >UA has 74 pianos, 2 h'chords and a p'forte. What are some budgets in >comparable schools? > >Wim Willem, We've got 96 pianos, 3 harpsichords and 1 fortepiano - after 20+ years, I finally got a budget line of my own. $1500. Of course, if I replace wippens, hammers and shanks on ONE S$S grand, I'm over.......... ;-} Conrad Hoffsommer - Music Technician Luther College, 700 College Dr., Decorah, Iowa 52101-1045 Vox-(563)-387-1204 // Fax (563)-387-1076 - Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it. From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 8 17:46:49 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:46:49 EDT Subject: budget Message-ID: <147.16f308cf.2c652df9@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Based on the information from Fred and Alan, as per their posts from the past, has the idea of including some sort of budget figure in the Guidelines? In as much as the committee has a guideline on how many pianos tuners it takes to screw in a light bulb, perhaps administration should have a some guidelines as to how much money it takes to maintain those light bulbs. And if we're going to go that far, how about if we include the average full time salary. These figures, of course, would need to be updated every few years. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/83/e2/a3/04/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jtanner@mozart.sc.edu Fri Aug 8 18:14:55 2003 From: jtanner@mozart.sc.edu (Jeff Tanner) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:14:55 -0400 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <147.16f308cf.2c652df9@aol.com> Message-ID: Wim, It's in there, as a percentage (5-10%) of the replacement cost of your inventory. According to that, my annual budget should be between $150K and $300K (including salary) for a $3 million inventory, but it ain't. Last fiscal year was the first year I had a budget. I get the recital fees, and I can charge other departments for piano service and have that money go in there. Without spending much of it all year, I had about $3000 (0.1%) by the end of the year (123 pianos, 2 fortepiano reproductions, and a handful of harpsichords). We've got it in an account which doesn't have to be emptied at the end of the year. But I don't get a "debit" card, and it costs me 8% to use it. I'm not sure we'd want to include the average full time salary. Perhaps some sort of "guidance" into comparing with local private sector earnings levels would be good at some point. Jeff >Based on the information from Fred and Alan, as per their posts from the >past, has the idea of including some sort of budget figure in the >Guidelines? In as much as the committee has a guideline on how many pianos >tuners it takes to screw in a light bulb, perhaps administration should >have a some guidelines as to how much money it takes to maintain those >light bulbs. And if we're going to go that far, how about if we include >the average full time salary. These figures, of course, would need to be >updated every few years. > > Wim Jeff Tanner, RPT Piano Technician School of Music 813 Assembly ST University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803)-777-4392 jtanner@mozart.sc.edu From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Fri Aug 8 12:36:18 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:36:18 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <147.16f308cf.2c652df9@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030808113618.013da700@accesscomm.ca> Hi Wim, Perhaps the question should be "What is the minimum budget that will allow our school to gradually improve the level of the existing pianos?" Is there not a formula that could be applied? Life span of piano 30 years--with hammer+shank replacement every 5 years, restringing after 7.5 and new pin block at 15, for example? Add all the parts cost needed over lifetime of instrument divide by 30 and mulitply by the number of instruments owned. Parts / 30 X pianos = yearly miminum parts budget The only thing I am certain of is that most schools don't have a parts budget that is nearly high enough to maintain the instruments at a high performance level. If you look at the tuning situation in Brandon, Manitoba, where they have had humidity control on every instrument for quite a while it would be sensible to invest in units for the pianos. At 12:46 PM 8/8/2003 EDT, you wrote: >Based on the information from Fred and Alan, as per their posts from the >past, has the idea of including some sort of budget figure in the >Guidelines? In as much as the committee has a guideline on how many pianos >tuners it takes to screw in a light bulb, perhaps administration should >have a some guidelines as to how much money it takes to maintain those >light bulbs. And if we're going to go that far, how about if we include the >average full time salary. These figures, of course, would need to be >updated every few years. > > Wim Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From stranges@Oswego.EDU Fri Aug 8 21:31:57 2003 From: stranges@Oswego.EDU (stranges@Oswego.EDU) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:31:57 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll :( Message-ID: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> Ok folks.. With the lovely high humidity, and all of the keybushing you're getting done this summer.. You MUST unfortunately be running into the grody residue left from years of dirty fingers and who knows what else on the sides of keys- especially the sharps. I had a short discussion about it with Dr. Don McKechnie- but who else does what, to get rid of this yucky stuff. Speak up please. You know who you are.. :B Grossed out in Oswego From okeyes@uidaho.edu Fri Aug 8 21:42:33 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:42:33 -0700 Subject: finger gunk poll :( References: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> Message-ID: <001601c35ded$980c4880$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Scrape! Use a very sharp chisel, wide enough to span the height of the sharp so you don't gouge. You can do this w/keys on the piano too, then just vaccuum up before wiping down with a mild soap solution. The minute you get it wet, it's like titebond. Not so gross & smelly in the dry state either. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "caut list" Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:31 PM Subject: finger gunk poll :( > > Ok folks.. > > With the lovely high humidity, and all of the keybushing you're getting > done this summer.. > > You MUST unfortunately be running into the grody residue left from years of > dirty fingers and who knows what else on the sides of keys- especially the > sharps. > > I had a short discussion about it with Dr. Don McKechnie- but who else does > what, to get rid of this yucky stuff. > > Speak up please. > > You know who you are.. > > :B > Grossed out in Oswego > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From stranges@Oswego.EDU Fri Aug 8 22:01:19 2003 From: stranges@Oswego.EDU (stranges@Oswego.EDU) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:01:19 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <001601c35ded$980c4880$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <1220254.3269350879@stranges.oswego.edu> :B Thanx Otto!! In the past I have used a rozor blade- and I actually don't MIND doing this procedure in that I think it shows a nice touch and a caring soul who would brave such a uncomfy job- BUT- Wouldn't it be nice if there was some neat magic juice to throw on there- and it would all just evaporate? Thanx again for your method. :) TGIF in Oswego --On Friday, August 8, 2003 1:42 PM -0700 Otto Keyes wrote: > Scrape! Use a very sharp chisel, wide enough to span the height of the > sharp so you don't gouge. You can do this w/keys on the piano too, then > just vaccuum up before wiping down with a mild soap solution. The minute > you get it wet, it's like titebond. Not so gross & smelly in the dry > state either. > > Otto > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "caut list" > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:31 PM > Subject: finger gunk poll :( > > >> >> Ok folks.. >> >> With the lovely high humidity, and all of the keybushing you're getting >> done this summer.. >> >> You MUST unfortunately be running into the grody residue left from years > of >> dirty fingers and who knows what else on the sides of keys- especially >> the sharps. >> >> I had a short discussion about it with Dr. Don McKechnie- but who else > does >> what, to get rid of this yucky stuff. >> >> Speak up please. >> >> You know who you are.. >> >> :B >> Grossed out in Oswego >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 8 22:34:06 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:34:06 EDT Subject: finger gunk poll :( Message-ID: <50.20a20272.2c65714e@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/8/03 3:57:35 PM Central Daylight Time, stranges@Oswego.EDU writes: > Wouldn't it be nice if there was some neat magic juice to throw on there- > and it would all just evaporate? > Something I learned in chemistry a long time ago. Matter doesn't disappear. What ever substance you have, regardless of what you do to it, it becomes other matter. So the only way to get rid of gunk, is to remove it. You can either remove it dry, as Otto suggested, or wet, using some sort of strong cleaner. I like SIMPLY GREEN. But there other degreasing products that work just as well. The bottom line, however, is you have to do manual labor to get it off the keys. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/10/94/98/bc/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From stranges@Oswego.EDU Fri Aug 8 22:44:14 2003 From: stranges@Oswego.EDU (stranges@Oswego.EDU) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:44:14 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <50.20a20272.2c65714e@aol.com> Message-ID: <1375043.3269353454@stranges.oswego.edu> Ehhhh... I'm just lazy, eh?? Wanting that quick fix!! :) Michelle Thanx Wim. --On Friday, August 8, 2003 5:34 PM +0000 Wimblees@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/8/03 3:57:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > stranges@Oswego.EDU writes: > > > Wouldn't it be nice if there was some neat magic juice to throw on there- > and it would all just evaporate? > > > > Something I learned in chemistry a long time ago. Matter doesn't > disappear. What ever substance you have, regardless of what you do to it, > it becomes other matter. So the only way to get rid of gunk, is to remove > it. You can either remove it dry, as Otto suggested, or wet, using some > sort of strong cleaner. I like SIMPLY GREEN. But there other degreasing > products that work just as well. The bottom line, however, is you have to > do manual labor to get it off the keys. > > Wim From okeyes@uidaho.edu Fri Aug 8 23:00:45 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:00:45 -0700 Subject: finger gunk poll :( References: <1375043.3269353454@stranges.oswego.edu> Message-ID: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Not laziness at all, Michelle, merely energy efficiency. Actually, matter can be converted into energy. In this case you could burn the piano. However, any way you look approach it, energy is involved....but I would prefer that it was someone else's in this case. That's why I get my kids to do this stuff.....wonder why they don't wannabeatoona?! Enlist the assistance of some eager undergrad. who realizes that the road to riches & success in the performance world is paved with large boulders, so they see and admire your work, and figure they can make a quick buck tuning pianos. Let them try to wash it off first. If nothing else, maybe they'll learn to wash their hands more often. Nothing like a little reality therapy! Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:44 PM Subject: Re: finger gunk poll :( > Ehhhh... I'm just lazy, eh?? > > Wanting that quick fix!! > > :) Michelle > > Thanx Wim. > > --On Friday, August 8, 2003 5:34 PM +0000 Wimblees@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 8/8/03 3:57:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > > stranges@Oswego.EDU writes: > > > > > > Wouldn't it be nice if there was some neat magic juice to throw on there- > > and it would all just evaporate? > > > > > > > > Something I learned in chemistry a long time ago. Matter doesn't > > disappear. What ever substance you have, regardless of what you do to it, > > it becomes other matter. So the only way to get rid of gunk, is to remove > > it. You can either remove it dry, as Otto suggested, or wet, using some > > sort of strong cleaner. I like SIMPLY GREEN. But there other degreasing > > products that work just as well. The bottom line, however, is you have to > > do manual labor to get it off the keys. > > > > Wim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From stranges@Oswego.EDU Fri Aug 8 23:11:36 2003 From: stranges@Oswego.EDU (stranges@Oswego.EDU) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <1473797.3269355096@stranges.oswego.edu> GAFFAWW!!!! :B Otto for prez!! :) Cheers from Oswego ps- Is this why your name is Keyes?? :) --On Friday, August 8, 2003 3:00 PM -0700 Otto Keyes wrote: > Not laziness at all, Michelle, merely energy efficiency. Actually, matter > can be converted into energy. In this case you could burn the piano. > However, any way you look approach it, energy is involved....but I would > prefer that it was someone else's in this case. That's why I get my kids > to do this stuff.....wonder why they don't wannabeatoona?! Enlist the > assistance of some eager undergrad. who realizes that the road to riches & > success in the performance world is paved with large boulders, so they see > and admire your work, and figure they can make a quick buck tuning pianos. > Let them try to wash it off first. If nothing else, maybe they'll learn > to wash their hands more often. Nothing like a little reality therapy! > > Otto > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: finger gunk poll :( > > >> Ehhhh... I'm just lazy, eh?? >> >> Wanting that quick fix!! >> >> :) Michelle >> >> Thanx Wim. >> >> --On Friday, August 8, 2003 5:34 PM +0000 Wimblees@aol.com wrote: >> >> > In a message dated 8/8/03 3:57:35 PM Central Daylight Time, >> > stranges@Oswego.EDU writes: >> > >> > >> > Wouldn't it be nice if there was some neat magic juice to throw on > there- >> > and it would all just evaporate? >> > >> > >> > >> > Something I learned in chemistry a long time ago. Matter doesn't >> > disappear. What ever substance you have, regardless of what you do to > it, >> > it becomes other matter. So the only way to get rid of gunk, is to > remove >> > it. You can either remove it dry, as Otto suggested, or wet, using some >> > sort of strong cleaner. I like SIMPLY GREEN. But there other degreasing >> > products that work just as well. The bottom line, however, is you have > to >> > do manual labor to get it off the keys. >> > >> > Wim >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 8 23:14:28 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:14:28 EDT Subject: budget Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/8/03 12:11:00 PM Central Daylight Time, jtanner@mozart.sc.edu writes: > It's in there, as a percentage (5-10%) of the replacement cost of your > inventory. > That's for everything, including salary for technicians, replacing instruments, equipment and supplies. What I was looking for was a budget for parts, supplies, and contract labor for items like new soundboards, pin blocks, etc. For schools that already have a full time technician, and a shop full of tools, it would be helpful to show what other schools are allocating for supplies, etc. If we can ask for a simple figure, like x dollar per piano, and back it up with "that's what the other schools are getting," it might be easier to get the money we need. If we can also figure out how much that would be for smaller schools that use contract help, again, it might help a chair get more money for the piano maintenance program. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/2f/88/0f/53/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 8 23:29:59 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:29:59 EDT Subject: budget Message-ID: <1d6.ed6bddf.2c657e67@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/7/03 6:14:10 PM Central Daylight Time, A440A@aol.com writes: > As Caut members, we really need to get our sales pitch down to a science > so that schools can be made to understand that replacement of better brands > of > pianos is far more expensive than restoration, I agree with you. But the problem is not always a matter of educating the faculty, or the administration. Sometimes the problems lies with the fund raising department of the school. It is much easier to get someone to donate $90,000 for a new Steinway, on which their name can be put, than to give $90,000 to rebuild 3 or 4 older pianos. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/b7/e7/b7/7d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From susanw@u.washington.edu Sat Aug 9 01:17:01 2003 From: susanw@u.washington.edu (Susan Willanger) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: We use a bucket of warm water with Spic and Span.(with a rag wrung out pretty well) Takes it right off! _________________________________________________ Susan Willanger Cady, RPT Piano Technician University of Washington From skline@peak.org Sat Aug 9 02:06:25 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:06:25 -0700 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: References: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030808180535.02543b00@mail.peak.org> At 05:17 PM 8/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >We use a bucket of warm water with Spic and Span.(with a rag wrung out >pretty well) >Takes it right off! > >_________________________________________________ >Susan Willanger Cady, RPT I remember Yvonne Ashmore getting it off with ammonia -- she seemed to get rid of it far faster than I did when I tried it. Susan From Wimblees@aol.com Sat Aug 9 12:39:29 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 07:39:29 EDT Subject: finger gunk poll :( Message-ID: <18f.1e07cd2c.2c663771@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/8/03 8:06:38 PM Central Daylight Time, skline@peak.org writes: > I remember Yvonne Ashmore getting it off with ammonia -- she seemed to get > rid of it far faster than I did when I tried it. > > Susan > > You'd have to wear a gas mask if you use it full strength. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/b7/7b/6e/da/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no Sat Aug 9 13:07:49 2003 From: Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no (Richard Brekne) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:07:49 +0200 Subject: finger gunk poll :( References: Message-ID: <3F34E415.E7736E4B@grieg.uib.no> Hey there Susan !! Long time no see... when did you take over the UW ? Cheers RicB Susan Willanger wrote: > We use a bucket of warm water with Spic and Span.(with a rag wrung out > pretty well) > Takes it right off! > > _________________________________________________ > Susan Willanger Cady, RPT > Piano Technician > University of Washington > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html From alan.crane@wichita.edu Sat Aug 9 16:57:38 2003 From: alan.crane@wichita.edu (Alan Crane) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:57:38 -0500 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: References: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030809103823.00a87280@wichita.edu> For a short time now, I've been using up a container of Wet Ones - Antibacterial Moist Towelettes (it was just lying around the shop and I needed something in a pinch for one of the classroom grands). They seem to work really well, dry quickly, don't run down the sides of the keys, are convenient to carry & store, and (most important) the "gunk" just sort of disappears into the towelettes. They also claim to kill germs which, if true, is always a plus. These things contain alcohol (and some other stuff like aloe...) but I haven't noticed anything but the filth coming off the keys (ie. no stain, lacquer, or other finish). As far as cleaning "gunk" off the unfinished wood on the side of the keystick during rebushing or other work, I'm not sure I'd want to use this much moisture and would probably opt for Otto's wide sharp chisel. I really like using Cory's "Key Brite" too and have found it to remove the "gunk" in short order. What I like best about it, though, is the pristine feel the keys have afterward. I think the Wet Ones leave a slightly different feel (probably the Aloe, etc.) but its such a minor difference I don't worry about that on non-concert instruments at all. If anyone else has experience using these products in this capacity, I'd like to hear their thoughts on them. Thanks to everyone who has thrown their "two cents" in on this thread; its been very helpful. Regards, Alan Crane, RPT School of Music Wichita State University alan.crane@wichita.edu From skline@peak.org Sat Aug 9 17:46:05 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:46:05 -0700 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <18f.1e07cd2c.2c663771@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030809094409.02c9c6d0@mail.peak.org> > > >>I remember Yvonne Ashmore getting it off with ammonia -- she seemed to get >>rid of it far faster than I did when I tried it. >> >>Susan > > >You'd have to wear a gas mask if you use it full strength. > >Wim Yeah, Wim, that's why I didn't do it much. Scraping followed by a damp shop towel works pretty well. I continue to be amazed at the power of a barely damp towel, especially on institutional pianos which haven't been cleaned in years. Susan From skline@peak.org Sat Aug 9 17:57:54 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:57:54 -0700 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030809103823.00a87280@wichita.edu> References: <001001c35df8$84f86610$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030809094755.02c98580@mail.peak.org> At 10:57 AM 8/9/2003 -0500, Alan wrote: >For a short time now, I've been using up a container of Wet Ones - >Antibacterial Moist Towelettes My concern is that they seem to have a lot of perfume in them. For some people this is a plus, but it drives others around the bend. >I really like using Cory's "Key Brite" too and have found it to remove the >"gunk" in short order. What I like best about it, though, is the pristine >feel the keys have afterward. I think the Wet Ones leave a slightly >different feel (probably the Aloe, etc.) but its such a minor difference I >don't worry about that on non-concert instruments at all. I haven't tried Cory's Key Brite, but I think I will. I like their cleaner for satin finishes for practically new pianos -- the kind where the cat walked around, the kind which have an immaculate finish except for some hand prints, etc. In cleaning keys on concert pianos, I'm always concerned that they may end up too slippery. What I tend to do is to take the BARELY damp rag (even dryer than usual) and rub out only the visible dirt. This is usually only the edges of a few keys. It's easiest to get this level of dampness by wetting only a small corner of the towel, and then squeezing it with the rest. Then I test with my bare finger to make sure that the surface has just a little tack to it, instead of slipping. I carry a beeswax candle in my kit, just in case. A small mark with the candle, which can then be rubbed hard across the whole surface of the key, seems to give a surface with just the right amount of traction. I tried ordinary candles, and the wax was too brittle. I did have an artist who found the real ivory keys near the ocean were too gummy instead of too slippery. I carried a clean washcloth and wiped them down for him just before he played. Susan From traylorg@equaltemperament.com Sun Aug 10 03:00:47 2003 From: traylorg@equaltemperament.com (Garret E. Traylor) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:00:47 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll In-Reply-To: <200308091800.h79I0Cd30621@bridget.rudoff.com> Message-ID: About the only thing I can add that is different and perhaps helpful... for a cleaning cloth I use cheesecloth it works best of any cloth I have tried! Garret From fssturm@unm.edu Mon Aug 11 14:32:17 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:32:17 -0600 Subject: finger gunk poll :( In-Reply-To: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> References: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> Message-ID: <72250.1060587137@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> I'll add a couple things to what others have offered: 1) I use a cabinet scraper, that rectangular piece of metal with sharp 90 degree edges (honed with a nice burr, if you are a real good woodworker), both for sides of sharps and naturals (Obviously with keys out of piano). 2) TO remove the residue not taken by the scraper, on the sharps, steam is great for melting the gunk as a preparation. THen wipe off with a moist, somewhat soaped paper towel. Fast. 3) Buff sharps with extrafine wool when dry. I love the feel of ebony when it is clean and buffed! Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico --On Friday, August 8, 2003 4:31 PM -0400 stranges@Oswego.EDU wrote: > > Ok folks.. > > With the lovely high humidity, and all of the keybushing you're getting > done this summer.. > > You MUST unfortunately be running into the grody residue left from years > of dirty fingers and who knows what else on the sides of keys- especially > the sharps. > > I had a short discussion about it with Dr. Don McKechnie- but who else > does what, to get rid of this yucky stuff. > > Speak up please. > > You know who you are.. > > :B > Grossed out in Oswego > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From fssturm@unm.edu Mon Aug 11 14:34:20 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:34:20 -0600 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> References: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> Message-ID: <79674.1060587260@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> --On Thursday, August 7, 2003 7:13 PM -0400 A440A@aol.com wrote: > Fred writes: > << My > chair tells me he is almost certain the upper administration will approve > our request for a new course fee of $5/credit hour for all music dept > courses, targeted at pianos. This will generate $40,000 to $60,000/year, > but the bulk will go to piano replacement.>> > > AAAAAAARRRRGGG!!! > I see this all too often! Several years ago, I found that a major > state university had received the funds to purchase a new Steinway D. > They had two older ones, one of which had been horribly "rebuilt" about > 5 years before, and was unusable. The other was in poorly regulated > and voiced limbo. I tried to tell them that for the price of a new > one, the old one could be completely, (and I mean COMPLETELY) restored > and they would still have $50,000 left over to bring others up to par. > It didn't wash, they had been convinced that a NEW one was the only way > to have the 'genuine' experience. I just returned from that school > where I spent time with the "other" piano. I repinned the hammerline > and assorted whippen problems, reshaped hammers, worked over the > stringing, regulated, tuned and voiced. When I was done, the first > faculty member that played it said, "Wow, I wish our new piano played > and sounded this good"! Maybe we can figure out a way for you to restore > the really bad one". > As Caut members, we really need to get our sales pitch down to a > science so that schools can be made to understand that replacement of > better brands of pianos is far more expensive than restoration, and the > results are NOT superior. It blows my mind to see a school turn in a > handful of worn out Steinways in trade-in on a like number of new ones. > That is a great deal for the factory, but the school is getting taken to > the cleaners. > Regards, > Ed Foote RPT > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html > HREF="http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/399/six_degrees_of_tonality.html"> > MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From fssturm@unm.edu Mon Aug 11 14:40:35 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:40:35 -0600 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> References: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> Message-ID: <102197.1060587634@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> Ed, You're right, rebuilding is much more cost-effective than replacement - to an extent. My first replacement priority will be 30-odd 40 year old Hamiltons. I also included $5000/year for parts, $4000/year for a student employee, $3000/year for contract tuning, and $3000/year for contract rebuilding. Exactly how those numbers will balance over the long haul will be subject to experience, but I do have $15,000 built in for parts and labor, against $45,000 for annual replacement. The replacement scheme assumes uprights last 40 years, grands 60 years. Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico --On Thursday, August 7, 2003 7:13 PM -0400 A440A@aol.com wrote: > Fred writes: > << My > chair tells me he is almost certain the upper administration will approve > our request for a new course fee of $5/credit hour for all music dept > courses, targeted at pianos. This will generate $40,000 to $60,000/year, > but the bulk will go to piano replacement.>> > > AAAAAAARRRRGGG!!! > I see this all too often! Several years ago, I found that a major > state university had received the funds to purchase a new Steinway D. > They had two older ones, one of which had been horribly "rebuilt" about > 5 years before, and was unusable. The other was in poorly regulated > and voiced limbo. I tried to tell them that for the price of a new > one, the old one could be completely, (and I mean COMPLETELY) restored > and they would still have $50,000 left over to bring others up to par. > It didn't wash, they had been convinced that a NEW one was the only way > to have the 'genuine' experience. I just returned from that school > where I spent time with the "other" piano. I repinned the hammerline > and assorted whippen problems, reshaped hammers, worked over the > stringing, regulated, tuned and voiced. When I was done, the first > faculty member that played it said, "Wow, I wish our new piano played > and sounded this good"! Maybe we can figure out a way for you to restore > the really bad one". > As Caut members, we really need to get our sales pitch down to a > science so that schools can be made to understand that replacement of > better brands of pianos is far more expensive than restoration, and the > results are NOT superior. It blows my mind to see a school turn in a > handful of worn out Steinways in trade-in on a like number of new ones. > That is a great deal for the factory, but the school is getting taken to > the cleaners. > Regards, > Ed Foote RPT > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html > HREF="http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/399/six_degrees_of_tonality.html"> > MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From claviers@onemain.com Mon Aug 11 14:52:46 2003 From: claviers@onemain.com (James Ellis) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:52:46 -0400 Subject: Finger Gunk on Keys Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030811095246.007c08c0@pop.onemain.com> I have been reading the recent posts re cleaning gunk off keys, and I can no longer resist getting into this one. If there was anything my older sister ever taught me when I was just a little boy that I remember, it was not to play the piano with dirty hands. Now, approaching 75 years of age and 60 some years of tuning, here's what I use to clean keys: A damp cloth for the naturals and sharps - damp with pure water, nothing else - just damp, NOT wet. If I can wring any water out of it, it's too damp. It does take some rubbing along with the damp cloth. For the wood below the key tops, nothing wet, I carefully scrape. CAREFULLY. I have seen too many keys butchered on the sides. The last performance Rachmaninoff ever gave was in Knoxville Tennessee in 1943. He died a few weeks later. The man who tuned the piano for that one (now deceased) once told me that Rachmaninoff chewed him out because he did not clean the keys. As many of you know, the late Artur Rubinstein did not want the keys cleaned before his performances - but if they were, a little hair spray would fix it. Sincerely, Jim Ellis From edoss@utm.edu Mon Aug 11 15:25:19 2003 From: edoss@utm.edu (Elwood Doss, Jr.) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:25:19 -0500 Subject: history of tuning Message-ID: <001d01c36014$6471d520$26050b0a@utm.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Anyone have a good source regarding Pythagoras and his contribution to tu= ning--especially the Pythagorean temperament. I've studied Jorgenson's b= ig red book (I happened to purchase one in 1994--even though I had little= money at that time and less sense) and have gotten some information. An= y class notes, books, etc. would help. I'm teaching a tuning class this = fall and want to begin with a brief history of tuning. Any help would be= appreciated. Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 225 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-7482 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/fc/95/fe/5d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From kenrpt@earthlink.net Mon Aug 11 16:24:57 2003 From: kenrpt@earthlink.net (Ken Jankura) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:24:57 -0400 Subject: history of tuning References: <001d01c36014$6471d520$26050b0a@utm.edu> Message-ID: <001701c3601c$b9a5afa0$2101a8c0@sprintlink.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I strongly recommend Anita Sullivan's 'The Seventh Dragon, The Riddle of = Equal Temperament'. For eloquence, perspective, understanding, insight, = and beauty, you can't beat it. You will look at your own craft with new = and more appreciative eyes for having read it.=20 Ken Jankura RPT Fayetteville PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Elwood Doss, Jr.=20 To: College and University Technicians=20 Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: history of tuning Anyone have a good source regarding Pythagoras and his contribution to = tuning--especially the Pythagorean temperament. I've studied = Jorgenson's big red book (I happened to purchase one in 1994--even = though I had little money at that time and less sense) and have gotten = some information. Any class notes, books, etc. would help. I'm = teaching a tuning class this fall and want to begin with a brief history = of tuning. Any help would be appreciated. Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 225 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-7482 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/d5/64/4a/e0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Mon Aug 11 17:29:06 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:29:06 -0700 Subject: budget In-Reply-To: <31.3c5f1d36.2c643710@aol.com> Message-ID: Ed, et al, This issue is huge. One of the most important functions of a piano course would be to educate pianists and piano faculty just what is possible. Too often when even just one aspect of a piano is perceived as "bad," the whole piano is forever dismissed as a bad instrument. The faculty then becomes a force for considering rebuilding instead of replacement. The process will take some time though, so we might be around to see the fruits of our education! Alan McCoy > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > A440A@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:13 PM > To: caut@ptg.org > Subject: Re: budget > > > Fred writes: > << My > chair tells me he is almost certain the upper administration will approve > our request for a new course fee of $5/credit hour for all music dept > courses, targeted at pianos. This will generate $40,000 to $60,000/year, > but the bulk will go to piano replacement.>> > > AAAAAAARRRRGGG!!! > I see this all too often! Several years ago, I found that a > major state > university had received the funds to purchase a new Steinway D. > They had two > older ones, one of which had been horribly "rebuilt" about 5 > years before, and > was unusable. The other was in poorly regulated and voiced limbo. > I tried to tell them that for the price of a new one, the old > one could be > completely, (and I mean COMPLETELY) restored and they would still have > $50,000 left over to bring others up to par. It didn't wash, > they had been > convinced that a NEW one was the only way to have the 'genuine' > experience. > I just returned from that school where I spent time with the > "other" piano. > I repinned the hammerline and assorted whippen problems, > reshaped hammers, > worked over the stringing, regulated, tuned and voiced. When I > was done, the > first faculty member that played it said, "Wow, I wish our new > piano played > and sounded this good"! Maybe we can figure out a way for you to > restore the > really bad one". > As Caut members, we really need to get our sales pitch down to > a science > so that schools can be made to understand that replacement of > better brands of > pianos is far more expensive than restoration, and the results are NOT > superior. It blows my mind to see a school turn in a handful of > worn out Steinways > in trade-in on a like number of new ones. That is a great deal for the > factory, but the school is getting taken to the cleaners. > Regards, > Ed Foote RPT > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html > HREF="http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/399/six_degrees_of_tonality.html"> > MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From harvey@greenwood.net Tue Aug 12 03:27:05 2003 From: harvey@greenwood.net (Jim Harvey) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:27:05 -0400 Subject: finger gunk poll In-Reply-To: References: <200308091800.h79I0Cd30621@bridget.rudoff.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030811213716.00bafb00@mail.greenwood.net> This is essentially a summary of previous replies, with personal variations. I was going to reply earlier, but someone threw me off by discussing what sounded like key TOP cleaning. Assuming we're talking about the key SIDES... Starting with the dry, undisturbed keystick that contains finger gunk, aka 'cooties'; - use an old-fashioned single-edge razor blade, with or without a holder, and positioned either straight down (dulls faster), or at a slight angle. The idea is to 'drag' scrape, not cut, so while grain direction should be observed, it's not that critical on most keysets. This removes the crustaceans that grow on top of the wood. The blade is also effective at the keystick and sharp juncture, including where fingernails have undercut the keystick.Toss the blade on completion; - for the remaining surface and pore discoloration, I've tried numerous things. However, when considering costs, time involved, and minimal exposure to haz-mats, I invariably return to Parson's sudsy ammonia. At best, it removes all residual traces of dirt. At worst, it spreads everything out to provide an illusion of overall cleanliness. A working amount of the ammonia is poured out into a disposable container (paper cup, etc.) for dipping the applicator; - the applicator can be just about anything. Pre-wetting the keystick with ammonia is not required, but is sometimes an expedient on really nasty keys. If pre-wetting, use a disposable foam brush, acid brush or hammer felt scraps. For the final (might be the only) pass, a rag or shop towel works, but again considering time versus results, I use a small square of fine (white) Skotch-Brite abrasive pad (aka steel wool substitute), which easily rinses during use, before finally being tossed. I've also considered trying one of those nylon bath puffs, or even wadded-up pantyhose. Either of these untried methods would defeat the purpose of keeping costs low (since the puffs don't lend themselves to being cut to smaller sizes, and since I don't routinely have old pantyhose about). - Aside: I just heard a report that bath puffs have a slightly longer life than loufa sponges in terms of undesirable bacteria retention, and that loufa sponges are rated slightly longer than kitchen sponges, which have a service life of ... one use! Therefore, regardless of method, considering that what we're cleaning is unknown but undeniably nasty, the focus should be on expendable tools and materials. Jim Harvey, RPT Greenwood, SC harvey@greenwood.net ________________________ -- someone who's been in the field too long. From remoody@midstatesd.net Tue Aug 12 06:56:56 2003 From: remoody@midstatesd.net (Richard Moody) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:56:56 -0500 Subject: history of tuning Pythagorean References: <001d01c36014$6471d520$26050b0a@utm.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c36097$4ef1bf20$7ea78042@ekos> Nothing written by Pythagoras himself has come down to us. He is famous for the Pythagorean comma which is the ratio of the difference of twelve notes tuned to pure 5ths from the pure octave. This was a mathematical exercise in early Greek history. He didn't advocate a temperament because there were no instruments in his time that benefited from tempering. When keyboard instruments came about in the 1300-1400's some historians believe that some people tuned them by perfect 5ths and endured a wolf, or the difference between the 12th 5th and the top note of the starting octave. Because no actual historical records have been found of this procedure, this seems to be the "provincial tuning" alluded to by some writers. The most comprehensive explanation and exploration of "Pythagorean tuning" I have come across is in a pamphlet with the unlikely title, "Theory and Tuning: Aron's Meantone Temperament and Marpurg's Temperament I" (I, as the capital of i) by John W. Link, Jr. This was published in 1972 by Tuners Supply but is most likely out of print now. I have a copy machine copy of it and would be glad to lend it to you. It covers such things as how and why seemingly pure 3rds occur in Pythagorean tuning, (they are actually augmented 2nds or diminished 4ths I forget which). He also presents a theory based on resultant beats that attempts to explain why this temperament sounds so good for certain intervals. This booklet runs 130 pages (65 8x11 1/2 typewritten sheets folded). I think it would be worth while to scan and OCR if indeed it is out of print. I'd volunteer but with a 40 dollar scanner and its "free software" I don't think so. Much easier to mail it to you and you send it back. Unless there are 10 or more interested in spending 10 bucks on a digital version. Hmm I wonder if Kinkos does scanning and OCR ing.....? Richard Moody ps From an educated guess to tune a "Pythagorean", start from middle C (C4) and tune pure 5ths up and pure 4ths down until C# 5 then C#4 down. Next from C4 tune pure 5th down (F3) pure 4th up (Bb3) pure 4th up (Eb4) pure 5th down (Ab3), now a pure fourth up would be Db4 but this has already been tuned as C# 4. This interval Ab3 and C#4 (augmented 3rd?) (yet looks like a 4th on the keyboard) sounds awful, but this is the Pythagorean comma, the discrepancy predicted 1000 years before the keyboard was invented. Another way might be to tune up to G# and only down to Eb leaving the wolf between G# and Eb which is where the meantone wolf is usually found. This is also covered by John nk. ----rm ----- Original Message ----- From: Elwood Doss, Jr. To: College and University Technicians Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:25 AM Subject: history of tuning Anyone have a good source regarding Pythagoras and his contribution to tuning--especially the Pythagorean temperament. I've studied Jorgenson's big red book (I happened to purchase one in 1994--even though I had little money at that time and less sense) and have gotten some information. Any class notes, books, etc. would help. I'm teaching a tuning class this fall and want to begin with a brief history of tuning. Any help would be appreciated. Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 225 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-7482 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From remoody@midstatesd.net Tue Aug 12 07:04:13 2003 From: remoody@midstatesd.net (Richard Moody) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:04:13 -0500 Subject: cabinet scraper honing References: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> <72250.1060587137@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> Message-ID: <002901c36097$9a1c9b00$7ea78042@ekos> Fred, Can you suggest a way or ways to hone a cabinet scraper. I finally got one at the convention and wonder how I got along without. (OK I abused chisels and plane irons up until now). Richard Moody ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Sturm To: College and University Technicians Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:32 AM Subject: Re: finger gunk poll :( > I'll add a couple things to what others have offered: > 1) I use a cabinet scraper, that rectangular piece of metal with sharp 90 > degree edges (honed with a nice burr, if you are a real good woodworker), > both for sides of sharps and naturals (Obviously with keys out of piano). From atodd@UH.EDU Wed Aug 13 14:43:51 2003 From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:43:51 -0500 Subject: Blaster Worm Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030813083329.00b055c0@orpheus.music.uh.edu> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment List, Quite a few on our campus have been hit by this. Thankfully, I'd installed the patch some time ago so I've had no problems. Below is a link to our IT (Information Technology) page about it in case anyone is interested. There are a couple of other sites about it, also. http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-19.html >Blaster Worm Hits UH > >Some campus computer systems have been severely affected by the Blaster >worm, which is also known as the LovSan worm. Computers targeted by >this worm include the following Microsoft operating systems: > > Windows NT 4.0 > Windows 2000 > Windows XP > Windows Server 2003 > >If your computer cannot connect to the network, is receiving System >Shutdown or Generic Host Process for Win32 Services error messages, is >rebooting repeatedly, or is slow or unresponsive during a Windows >Update, it may be due to the Blaster worm. > >Information Technology has identified a number of steps to address the >problem. A detailed description of the problem, symptoms, and solutions >is available at . Another one going around is: VBS.DDV.B, a worm virus. The subject is random characters & an attachment named either Win32system.vbs or Winsystem32.vbs. Detection and removal information at: www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/vbs.ddv.b.html Keep those Windows systems (especially) and your virus protection updated!!!!!!!!!! For your sake as well as ours. :-) Avery ______________________ Avery Todd, RPT Moores School of Music University of Houston Houston, TX ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/8e/16/46/4d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From fssturm@unm.edu Wed Aug 13 16:10:26 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:10:26 -0600 Subject: cabinet scraper honing In-Reply-To: <002901c36097$9a1c9b00$7ea78042@ekos> References: <1114290.3269349117@stranges.oswego.edu> <72250.1060587137@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> <002901c36097$9a1c9b00$7ea78042@ekos> Message-ID: <142265.1060765826@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> Hi Richard, Check the February, 1990 PTJ, page 13, for a good article on the subject, with a drawing or two. That's volume 33, number 2 in the cd version. Regards, Fred --On Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:04 AM -0500 Richard Moody wrote: > Fred, > Can you suggest a way or ways to hone a cabinet scraper. I > finally got one at the convention and wonder how I got along > without. (OK I abused chisels and plane irons up until now). > > Richard Moody > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Sturm > To: College and University Technicians > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: finger gunk poll :( > > >> I'll add a couple things to what others have offered: >> 1) I use a cabinet scraper, that rectangular piece of metal with > sharp 90 >> degree edges (honed with a nice burr, if you are a real good > woodworker), >> both for sides of sharps and naturals (Obviously with keys out > of piano). > > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From fssturm@unm.edu Wed Aug 13 16:41:21 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:41:21 -0600 Subject: history of tuning Pythagorean In-Reply-To: <001f01c36097$4ef1bf20$7ea78042@ekos> References: <001d01c36014$6471d520$26050b0a@utm.edu> <001f01c36097$4ef1bf20$7ea78042@ekos> Message-ID: <253929.1060767681@dhcp-40-0960.unm.edu> A couple relatively brief sources are articles in the New Groves (big, multi-volume reference book on music and musicians) with articles on Pythagorus and on Pythagorean tuning; and more briefly in the Harvard Dictionary of Music. Any college or university music library should have both. Pythagorus is mostly known to us through Aristotle, who commented on many of his predecessors and contemporaries. The general lore that came down to us about Pythagorus, in reference to music, has to do with whole number ratios as they pertain to musical intervals. Particularly the ratios 2 : 1 (octave), 3 : 2 (5th), 4 : 3 (4th) and the derivative 9 : 8 (second), which is the difference between where the 4th and the 5th lie within the octave. These ratios were seen in terms of length of string, or possibly weight of object (there is an apocryphal story about Pythagorus hearing two metal smiths hammering against a couple anvils, which produced a tonal difference of a 5th. And that he weighed them and found the ratio of their weights to be 3 : 2). This general information was very much a part of medieval thinking, and music was one of the seven Liberal Arts of the time, closely associated with astronomy. Both were studied in numerical terms, dealing with ratios. The problem of dividing the octave was puzzled over for centuries by many minds, and the obsession has continued to modern times. Pythagorus noted that a "circle of 5ths" doesn't quite equal an octave, but comes tantalizingly close. 3 : 2 simply won't resolve to 2 : 1. He also is credited with discovering the "irrational" ratios - ratios between the diagonal and side of a square or between diagonal and circumference of a circle. He proved that these ratios couldn't be resolved to whole numbers, no matter how large (an idea we take for granted, and see as endlessly receding numbers past a decimal point). Quite an amazing breakthrough in thought, and one that he found very difficult to accept. Anyway, bottom line, besides perfect 5ths and 4ths, what is known as the "Pythagorean tuning" (not temperament, as it isn't tempered) is mostly known for its very wide major thirds (around 16 bps in the temperament area). It is the difference between these "Pythagorean thirds" and "pure" 5 : 4 thirds that is termed the "syntonic comma." That's plenty of that. Back to bulk tuning in preparation for our ridiculously early fall semester (1 1/2 weeks to go). Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico --On Tuesday, August 12, 2003 12:56 AM -0500 Richard Moody wrote: > Nothing written by Pythagoras himself has come down to us. He is > famous for the Pythagorean comma which is the ratio of the > difference of twelve notes tuned to pure 5ths from the pure > octave. This was a mathematical exercise in early Greek history. > He didn't advocate a temperament because there were no instruments > in his time that benefited from tempering. > When keyboard instruments came about in the 1300-1400's some > historians believe that some people tuned them by perfect 5ths and > endured a wolf, or the difference between the 12th 5th and the top > note of the starting octave. Because no actual historical records > have been found of this procedure, this seems to be the > "provincial tuning" alluded to by some writers. > The most comprehensive explanation and exploration of > "Pythagorean tuning" I have come across is in a pamphlet with the > unlikely title, "Theory and Tuning: Aron's Meantone Temperament > and Marpurg's Temperament I" (I, as the capital of i) by John W. > Link, Jr. This was published in 1972 by Tuners Supply but is most > likely out of print now. I have a copy machine copy of it and > would be glad to lend it to you. > It covers such things as how and why seemingly pure 3rds occur in > Pythagorean tuning, (they are actually augmented 2nds or > diminished 4ths I forget which). He also presents a theory > based on resultant beats that attempts to explain why this > temperament sounds so good for certain intervals. > This booklet runs 130 pages (65 8x11 1/2 typewritten sheets > folded). I think it would be worth while to scan and OCR if > indeed it is out of print. I'd volunteer but with a 40 dollar > scanner and its "free software" I don't think so. Much easier to > mail it to you and you send it back. Unless there are 10 or more > interested in spending 10 bucks on a digital version. Hmm I > wonder if Kinkos does scanning and OCR ing.....? > > Richard Moody > > ps From an educated guess to tune a "Pythagorean", start from > middle C (C4) and tune pure 5ths up and pure 4ths down until C# 5 > then C#4 down. Next from C4 tune pure 5th down (F3) pure 4th up > (Bb3) pure 4th up (Eb4) pure 5th down (Ab3), now a pure fourth > up would be Db4 but this has already been tuned as C# 4. This > interval Ab3 and C#4 (augmented 3rd?) (yet looks like a 4th on > the keyboard) sounds awful, but this is the Pythagorean comma, the > discrepancy predicted 1000 years before the keyboard was invented. > Another way might be to tune up to G# and only down to Eb > leaving the wolf between G# and Eb which is where the meantone > wolf is usually found. This is also covered by John > nk. ----rm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elwood Doss, Jr. > To: College and University Technicians > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:25 AM > Subject: history of tuning > > > Anyone have a good source regarding Pythagoras and his > contribution to tuning--especially the Pythagorean temperament. > I've studied Jorgenson's big red book (I happened to purchase one > in 1994--even though I had little money at that time and less > sense) and have gotten some information. Any class notes, books, > etc. would help. I'm teaching a tuning class this fall and want > to begin with a brief history of tuning. Any help would be > appreciated. > > Joy! > Elwood > > Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT > Technical Director/Piano Technician > Department of Music > 225 Fine Arts Building > University of Tennessee at Martin > 731/587-7482 > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From ed440@mindspring.com Wed Aug 13 15:34:22 2003 From: ed440@mindspring.com (Ed Sutton) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:34:22 -0400 Subject: history of tuning References: <001d01c36014$6471d520$26050b0a@utm.edu> Message-ID: <007001c361b5$be6e9980$91944b43@yourpa86z1i3g7> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Elwood- Perhaps you can find a copy of Musical Acoustics by Donald E. Hall = (Wadsworth Publishing Co.) The chapter on Harmonic Intervals and Tuning = is remarkably lucid. Hall is a physicist and musician, and a clear = writer as well. He presents the necessary terminology in a well = organized sequence. In 25 pages he shows the relationship between = acoustics, tuning history, temperament and music history. I don't know = anyone else who does such a good job. Ed Sutton ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Elwood Doss, Jr.=20 To: College and University Technicians=20 Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: history of tuning Anyone have a good source regarding Pythagoras and his contribution to = tuning--especially the Pythagorean temperament. I've studied = Jorgenson's big red book (I happened to purchase one in 1994--even = though I had little money at that time and less sense) and have gotten = some information. Any class notes, books, etc. would help. I'm = teaching a tuning class this fall and want to begin with a brief history = of tuning. Any help would be appreciated. Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 225 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-7482 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/c1/60/08/5f/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dmannino@kawaius.com Wed Aug 13 23:22:49 2003 From: dmannino@kawaius.com (Don Mannino) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:49 -0700 Subject: Hello again Message-ID: <8B311A9E826A90428FC6647C6A1D858A3E3D61@exchange-2000.kawaiamerica.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi all, =20 After having been unsubscribed for some time, I thought it might be good to get back on this list and see what's happening. I also wanted to write and let everyone know that Kawai's technical support staff has changed a bit. =20 I am in a new job at Kawai that is more aimed at training and education. Instead of being in technical support, I am now in charge of all technically oriented training activities for Kawai. This includes PTG activities, plus our in-house training program, and dealer training. =20 Nick Gravagne is now in charge of technical support for Kawai America, so he is the one to call if you need any service problems handled. Nick has been working for us since last October, and over the past couple of weeks he has already been getting settled into his new job as tech support manager. =20 Kawai will be expanding all of our training activities over the next year, including more frequent intensive seminars here at Kawai America. The next one is planned for October, although this one is already filled. =20 =20 Our training seminar (called the Shigeru Kawai Technical Academy) is an intensive one week high-end grand piano regulation and voicing session, in which each participant regulates, tunes and voices a 6' or larger grand (hopefully Shigeru Kawai grands, but we will not always have enough of these so will use Kawai RX-3s a lot) under the tutelage of one of Kawai's Japanese concert technicians. =20 Technicians would need to arrange their own transportation, but Kawai takes care of the hotel and meals during the week seminar. If any of you would like to be on the waiting list for our seminar, please write to me. =20 For my new job I will also be traveling more than in the past, mainly visiting dealers and presenting local PTG meeting programs, when possible. As part of these dealer visits I will be starting a campaign of teaching dealers and dealer technicians the importance of new piano preparation, and direct training of store technicians on efficient prep techniques. If you have any requests along the lines of a PTG chapter meeting, let me know. =20 I look forward to seeing what's going on with CAUT these days! =20 Don Mannino RPT, Director Kawai Piano Technical Education www.kawaius.com dmannino@kawaius.com=20 =20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/ce/b9/5e/0d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jtanner@mozart.sc.edu Thu Aug 14 16:57:30 2003 From: jtanner@mozart.sc.edu (Jeff Tanner) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:57:30 -0400 Subject: Have a Fazioli? In-Reply-To: <3F2E7423.7040004@ithaca.edu> Message-ID: Finally! I got on the web page to read this article. (My internet hasn't been working correctly for quite some time). I've got to question a statement in the article: "Debra Simon, the executive director of the World Financial Center's arts and events program, said the 21 pianos would be the largest collection of pianos played at the same time in one place since the 1939 World's Fair. And those pianos were uprights, not grands." Wasn't there an Olympics opening ceremony several years back (like, 1992ish) with many more pianos than this? I don't remember how many, but I remember it being a ridiculous number. Jeff >Anyone know where he can find more Faziolis? I have to try attending >this one! > >Don Jeff Tanner, RPT Piano Technician School of Music 813 Assembly ST University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803)-777-4392 jtanner@mozart.sc.edu From BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU Thu Aug 14 16:58:00 2003 From: BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU (Becker, Lawrence (beckerlr)) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:58:00 -0400 Subject: Have a Fazioli? Message-ID: <9BA6DCC15456CC46894E77233173DD7C016EF2C6@UCMAIL5> 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. Lawrence Becker, RPT Piano Technician College-Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Tanner [mailto:jtanner@mozart.sc.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:58 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: Have a Fazioli? Finally! I got on the web page to read this article. (My internet hasn't been working correctly for quite some time). I've got to question a statement in the article: "Debra Simon, the executive director of the World Financial Center's arts and events program, said the 21 pianos would be the largest collection of pianos played at the same time in one place since the 1939 World's Fair. And those pianos were uprights, not grands." Wasn't there an Olympics opening ceremony several years back (like, 1992ish) with many more pianos than this? I don't remember how many, but I remember it being a ridiculous number. Jeff Jeff Tanner, RPT Piano Technician School of Music 813 Assembly ST University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803)-777-4392 jtanner@mozart.sc.edu _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From jtanner@mozart.sc.edu Thu Aug 14 17:05:27 2003 From: jtanner@mozart.sc.edu (Jeff Tanner) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:05:27 -0400 Subject: Have a Fazioli? In-Reply-To: <9BA6DCC15456CC46894E77233173DD7C016EF2C6@UCMAIL5> Message-ID: Thanks, Lawrence. I was thinking it was Los Angeles, but I didn't realize it was that long ago! Wow! time flies. Jeff >1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > >Lawrence Becker, RPT >Piano Technician >College-Conservatory of Music >University of Cincinnati > > -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Tanner [mailto:jtanner@mozart.sc.edu] >Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:58 AM >To: College and University Technicians >Subject: Re: Have a Fazioli? > >Finally! I got on the web page to read this article. (My internet hasn't >been working correctly for quite some time). > >I've got to question a statement in the article: > >"Debra Simon, the executive director of the World Financial Center's arts >and events program, said the 21 pianos would be the largest collection of >pianos played at the same time in one place since the 1939 World's Fair. >And those pianos were uprights, not grands." > >Wasn't there an Olympics opening ceremony several years back (like, >1992ish) with many more pianos than this? I don't remember how many, but I >remember it being a ridiculous number. >Jeff > > >Jeff Tanner, RPT >Piano Technician >School of Music >813 Assembly ST >University of South Carolina >Columbia, SC 29208 >(803)-777-4392 >jtanner@mozart.sc.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Wimblees@aol.com Thu Aug 14 17:51:18 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:51:18 EDT Subject: Have a Fazioli? Message-ID: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/14/03 10:58:23 AM Central Daylight Time, BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU writes: > 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > If I recall, something like 150 of them. Lots of Los Angeles area pianos techs were used to tune them. If you guys remember Ray Rueter, who worked for Kimball at the time, was one of the tuners, and then also got to play at the opening ceremony. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/0e/d5/ee/f0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jtanner@mozart.sc.edu Thu Aug 14 17:58:33 2003 From: jtanner@mozart.sc.edu (Jeff Tanner) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:58:33 -0400 Subject: Have a Fazioli? In-Reply-To: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> Message-ID: > >1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > > > > > If I recall, something like 150 of them... > Wim That's what I was thinking, too. Jeff From okeyes@uidaho.edu Thu Aug 14 20:25:15 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:25:15 -0700 Subject: Have a Fazioli? References: Message-ID: <002401c36299$c9e237b0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Tanner" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Have a Fazioli? > > > >1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > > > > > > > > > > If I recall, something like 150 of them... > > Wim > > That's what I was thinking, too. > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From okeyes@uidaho.edu Thu Aug 14 20:25:48 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:25:48 -0700 Subject: Have a Fazioli? References: Message-ID: <002901c36299$de02f540$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Tanner" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Have a Fazioli? > > > >1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > > > > > > > > > > If I recall, something like 150 of them... > > Wim > > That's what I was thinking, too. > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Tompiano@aol.com Thu Aug 14 20:30:01 2003 From: Tompiano@aol.com (Tompiano@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:30:01 EDT Subject: Have a Fazioli? Message-ID: <1c1.db82859.2c6d3d39@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I was at the Kimball factory in 1982 and remember Ray talking about the planning of that event. If I remember correctly the number of pianos was synonymous with the year...something like 84 white Kimball grands ( 1984). Tom Servinsky ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/00/3e/50/a4/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From okeyes@uidaho.edu Thu Aug 14 20:34:51 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:34:51 -0700 Subject: Have a Fazioli? References: Message-ID: <002e01c3629b$21485fb0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Don't New Yorkers just see L.A. as a smoggy suburb, with lots of scary green space (oh, & Chi-town) in between? Besides, L.A. had PSO's, not real pianos. :-) Otto PS: Sorry for the clutter that was sent unawares. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Tanner" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Have a Fazioli? > > > >1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > > > > > > > > > > If I recall, something like 150 of them... > > Wim > > That's what I was thinking, too. > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From atodd@UH.EDU Thu Aug 14 20:43:09 2003 From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:43:09 -0500 Subject: LA Olympics Pianos Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030814144042.00acc158@orpheus.music.uh.edu> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Here's some info that came from Keith McGavery that I'd saved from a discussion about this quite a few years ago. Avery =========================================== >...How long >prior to the performance where these pianos tuned? Any idea what >brand/model(s) these were?... > >Rob Goodale, RPT Here's more of the story (condensed): Piano Technicians Journal September 1985, page 13 Olympic Tuning Tests Technicians' Endurance Industry News +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Reuter was managing the placement of 84 Kimball grand pianos to be featured in George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" performed during the opening ceremony. "...Everyone--from our truck drivers who delivered the pianos, to people who installed the grands, to technicians who faced a potential nightmare--was up to the challenge." (Reuter) "...Once we had installed the 84 grands, we still had to final-tune them. To do that, five tuners from the Los Angeles area who I had worked with before were hired: Teri Powell, Bob Cloutier, Mark Wisner, Alan Slater and Emily Goya," Ray said. Reuter and Powell arrived at 6AM...Reuter commented, "Teri and I used the new Accu-Tuner, a computerized tuning mechanism, to tune one string from bass to treble. We left the unison tuning for the others who were to follow..." Two hours later, Cloutier, Wisner, Slater and Goya joined the pair of technicians..." The pianos were kept under the Coliseum arches so few were exposed to direct sunlight...each piano was covered with a space blanket... After tuning via an "assembly line"... They tuned without a break until noon and counted about 40 ...pianos behind them...It was almost 7PM when the last instrument was tuned as well as conditions allowed... "After a week and a half of preparation--moving all those pianos into the Coliseum, rehearsing for four days, plus a marathon tuning session--we were exhausted, but I was pleased with a job well done." (Reuter) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There is much more interesting information about what was going during the day of tunings. A truly spectacular feat performed by some incredible people. By the way all 84 pianos were blue! Keith McGavern ______________________ Avery Todd, RPT Moores School of Music University of Houston Houston, TX ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/05/19/73/ce/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From kam544@gbronline.com Thu Aug 14 21:00:25 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:00:25 -0500 Subject: LA Olympics (was Re: Have a Fazioli?) In-Reply-To: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> References: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment At 12:51 PM -0400 8/14/03, Wimblees@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/14/03 10:58:23 AM Central Daylight Time, >BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU writes: > >>1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. >> > > >If I recall, something like 150 of them. Lots of Los Angeles area >pianos techs were used to tune them. If you guys remember Ray >Rueter, who worked for Kimball at the time, was one of the tuners, >and then also got to play at the opening ceremony. Guys, I can't take it anymore :-) The misinformation continues ... white? ... 150? At least now the year and location are correct, *and* that Ray Reuter was involved. ---------- NOTE: I did see your post, Avery, but still decided to send this one from the horse's mouth, so to speak. It's McGavern, by the way. ---------- Here's a brief factual scoop*: 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles at the Los Angeles Coliseum Eighty-four (84) blue Kimball Grand pianos They were featured in George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" during the opening ceremony. Five additional tuners were involved besides Ray Reuter: Teri Powell, Bob Cloutier, Mark Wisner, Alan Slater, Emily Goya. *Piano Technicians Journal September 1985, page 13 Olympic Tuning Tests Technicians' Endurance Industry News More info (condensed ) I posted in 1998 from the Journal article: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/1998-September/037587.html Also a great site: http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/index_uk.asp ALL THE GAMES SINCE 1896 Relive the emotion of previous Games by selecting a date or host city Oh, and Wim, for some trivia, you were the Central West Vice President at the time. How about that? Cheers to all, Keith McGavern, RPT Oklahoma Baptist University Saint Gregory's University Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/13/4a/2f/cc/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dm.porritt@verizon.net Fri Aug 15 01:10:48 2003 From: dm.porritt@verizon.net (David M. Porritt) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:10:48 -0500 Subject: Have a Fazioli? In-Reply-To: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> References: <130.23cd851f.2c6d1806@aol.com> Message-ID: <200308141910480460.02A26C84@outgoing.verizon.net> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Actually 88! dave *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/14/2003 at 12:51 PM Wimblees@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/14/03 10:58:23 AM Central Daylight Time, BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU writes: 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. If I recall, something like 150 of them. Lots of Los Angeles area pianos techs were used to tune them. If you guys remember Ray Rueter, who worked for Kimball at the time, was one of the tuners, and then also got to play at the opening ceremony. Wim **************** END MESSAGE FROM Wimblees@aol.com ********************* _____________________________ David M. Porritt dporritt@mail.smu.edu Meadows School of the Arts Southern Methodist University Dallas, TX 75275 _____________________________ ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/ce/9c/c4/ab/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 15 02:35:30 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:35:30 EDT Subject: LA Olympics (was Re: Have a Fazioli?) Message-ID: <142.1733c7e3.2c6d92e2@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/14/03 3:00:50 PM Central Daylight Time, kam544@gbronline.com writes: > Oh, and Wim, for some trivia, you were the Central West Vice President at > the time. How about that? > > > Cheers to all, > > > Keith McGavern, RPT > > You did have to bring that up, didn't you. I'm trying to forget it. :) Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/06/52/0b/ce/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dmckech@ithaca.edu Fri Aug 15 15:42:27 2003 From: dmckech@ithaca.edu (Don McKechnie) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:42:27 -0700 Subject: Olympics (Was, Have a Fazioli) Message-ID: <3F3CF153.909428F9@ithaca.edu> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I have a memory of reading an article about tuning all those pianos and I bet Ray wrote it. It may have been in the Journal. Unfortunately, I cannot get my Journal CD search to work. Anybody have a CD that works? Don > Subject: > Re: Have a Fazioli? > Date: > Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:51:18 EDT > From: > Wimblees@aol.com > To: > caut@ptg.org > > > > In a message dated 8/14/03 10:58:23 AM Central Daylight Time, BECKERLR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU writes: > > 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Lots of white Kimballs. > > > > If I recall, something like 150 of them. Lots of Los Angeles area pianos techs were used to tune them. If you guys remember Ray > Rueter, who worked for Kimball at the time, was one of the tuners, and then also got to play at the opening ceremony. > > Wim > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/81/57/d8/a5/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 15 23:21:06 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:21:06 EDT Subject: Andre's address Message-ID: <1d2.f5cfa55.2c6eb6d2@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Any of you have Andre Oorbeck's address in Holland. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/c7/c2/36/f8/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jgrassi@silverlink.net Fri Aug 15 23:23:20 2003 From: jgrassi@silverlink.net (Jeannie Grassi) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:23:20 -0700 Subject: Hello again In-Reply-To: <8B311A9E826A90428FC6647C6A1D858A3E3D61@exchange-2000.kawaiamerica.com> Message-ID: <009201c3637b$d595d700$1b0d7140@dell> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi Don, I most definitely would like to be on your list for the training seminars. I now have 5 clients with brand new Shigerus. I live too far to do in-store work for the dealer (Helmers) but I am one of their field technicians and would love to go through the training. As far as PTG Chapter meetings.....would you be willing to do an All-Day Seminar for us in the Spring. Nick was here a couple of years ago, or we would ask him, too. Please let me know if that is something you'd be interested in. We'd love to have you. I speak as Vice President of the Seattle Chapter. Your new job sounds like a great change....I hope you think so. Regards, jeannie Jeannie Grassi, RPT Associate Editor, Piano Technicians Journal mailto:jgrassi@silverlink.net -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Don Mannino Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 3:23 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: Hello again Hi all, After having been unsubscribed for some time, I thought it might be good to get back on this list and see what's happening. I also wanted to write and let everyone know that Kawai's technical support staff has changed a bit. I am in a new job at Kawai that is more aimed at training and education. Instead of being in technical support, I am now in charge of all technically oriented training activities for Kawai. This includes PTG activities, plus our in-house training program, and dealer training. Nick Gravagne is now in charge of technical support for Kawai America, so he is the one to call if you need any service problems handled. Nick has been working for us since last October, and over the past couple of weeks he has already been getting settled into his new job as tech support manager. Kawai will be expanding all of our training activities over the next year, including more frequent intensive seminars here at Kawai America. The next one is planned for October, although this one is already filled. Our training seminar (called the Shigeru Kawai Technical Academy) is an intensive one week high-end grand piano regulation and voicing session, in which each participant regulates, tunes and voices a 6' or larger grand (hopefully Shigeru Kawai grands, but we will not always have enough of these so will use Kawai RX-3s a lot) under the tutelage of one of Kawai's Japanese concert technicians. Technicians would need to arrange their own transportation, but Kawai takes care of the hotel and meals during the week seminar. If any of you would like to be on the waiting list for our seminar, please write to me. For my new job I will also be traveling more than in the past, mainly visiting dealers and presenting local PTG meeting programs, when possible. As part of these dealer visits I will be starting a campaign of teaching dealers and dealer technicians the importance of new piano preparation, and direct training of store technicians on efficient prep techniques. If you have any requests along the lines of a PTG chapter meeting, let me know. I look forward to seeing what's going on with CAUT these days! Don Mannino RPT, Director Kawai Piano Technical Education www.kawaius.com dmannino@kawaius.com ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/2e/d7/35/76/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no Sun Aug 17 20:49:03 2003 From: Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no (Richard Brekne) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:49:03 +0200 Subject: Andre's address References: <1d2.f5cfa55.2c6eb6d2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3F3FDC2F.DBE40A@grieg.uib.no> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Antares Wimblees@aol.com wrote: > Any of you have Andre Oorbeck's address in Holland. > > Wim -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/8b/03/7e/0e/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From Wimblees@aol.com Sun Aug 17 22:14:59 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:14:59 EDT Subject: damper problem Message-ID: <68.33a599b6.2c714a53@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a new set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I put on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string cleanly. Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the shift, the right string rings on just a little more than I want. I tried adjust the damper head, but to no avail. In fact, the more I tilted the head to the right, the worse the problem got. When I tilted the head to the left, it didn't solve the problem either. It is not the adjacent damper lifter holding the damper up. I checked that. I'm at a loss. Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the problem? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/bf/6c/51/7e/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From roger.j@sasktel.net Sun Aug 17 23:08:26 2003 From: roger.j@sasktel.net (Roger Jolly) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 16:08:26 -0600 Subject: damper problem In-Reply-To: <68.33a599b6.2c714a53@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030817160643.00b352e8@mail.sasktel.net> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi Wim, Could it be the damper lift felts are badly worn and the timing is way off when the shift pedal is used? In general is the dampers timed early? Regards Roger At 05:14 PM 8/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a >new set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I >put on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string >cleanly. Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the >shift, the right string rings on just a little more than I want. I tried >adjust the damper head, but to no avail. In fact, the more I tilted the >head to the right, the worse the problem got. When I tilted the head to >the left, it didn't solve the problem either. It is not the adjacent >damper lifter holding the damper up. I checked that. I'm at a loss. > >Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the problem? > >Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/b0/38/e6/65/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From A440A@aol.com Sun Aug 17 23:46:24 2003 From: A440A@aol.com (A440A@aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:46:24 EDT Subject: damper problem Message-ID: Wim writes: << >I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a >new set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I >put on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string >cleanly. Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the >shift, the right string rings on just a little more than I want. >Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the problem? >> New strings are probably not going to be exactly level for some time. That will exacerbate a problem like this. Una corda damping is usually worse, since you have a string that is not moving, or moving out of phase with the two that are struck. This tends to interfere with the damper's wedging action. Check the level, don't point the problem out to anyone that plays the piano, and wait and pray for a week or two. This may solve itself. If not, you may need a cliff to jump off of........ Good luck, Ed Foote RPT www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Sun Aug 17 18:01:55 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:01:55 Subject: damper problem In-Reply-To: <68.33a599b6.2c714a53@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030817170155.00b8d840@accesscomm.ca> Hi Wim, Try temporarily "mass loading" the dampher. That may help. At 05:14 PM 8/17/2003 EDT, you wrote: >I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a new >set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I put >on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string cleanly. >Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the shift, the >right string rings on just a little more than I want. I tried adjust the >damper head, but to no avail. In fact, the more I tilted the head to the >right, the worse the problem got. When I tilted the head to the left, it >didn't solve the problem either. It is not the adjacent damper lifter >holding the damper up. I checked that. I'm at a loss. > > Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the problem? > > Wim Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From marysmith@mail.utexas.edu Mon Aug 18 03:57:07 2003 From: marysmith@mail.utexas.edu (Mary Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:57:07 -0500 Subject: damper problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030817215047.00bc1278@mail.utexas.edu> Yeah, I agree with what Ed said about letting the dampers settle in for a bit (praying never hurts, either...). Also, be aware that levelling strings can impact damping, for better or for worse. You might check string level just to be sure the dampers are properly mated. And be sure to check the spacing of the strings through the agraffes. You don't mention what area of the piano is having this problem, but I am guessing it is in the trichord wedges just above the tenor break. If the string spacing is uneven, then the tips of the trichord wedge dampers may not fit as snugly on one side as on the other. You can give judicious squeezes to the "fat" side of the damper felt (out of the piano, of course). Mary At 06:46 PM 8/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Wim writes: > ><< >I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a > >new set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I > >put on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string > >cleanly. Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the > >shift, the right string rings on just a little more than I want. > >Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the >problem? >> > >New strings are probably not going to be exactly level for some time. That >will exacerbate a problem like this. Una corda damping is usually worse, >since >you have a string that is not moving, or moving out of phase with the two >that >are struck. This tends to interfere with the damper's wedging action. > Check the level, don't point the problem out to anyone that plays the >piano, and wait and pray for a week or two. This may solve itself. If >not, you may >need a cliff to jump off of........ >Good luck, > >Ed Foote RPT >www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/ >www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html > >MP3.com: Six Degrees of Tonality >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From davidlovepianos@earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 04:43:02 2003 From: davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:43:02 -0700 Subject: damper problem Message-ID: <410-220038118343228@earthlink.net> I assume this is a split trichord damper? Have you tried opening the damper by slicing the center cut slightly deeper and inserting a small piece of string to keep the damper spread. This usually takes care of any problems with outside strings (assuming alignment is good). David Love davidlovepianos@earthlink.net From lancelafargue@bellsouth.net Tue Aug 19 17:43:43 2003 From: lancelafargue@bellsouth.net (Lance Lafargue) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:43:43 -0500 Subject: damper problem In-Reply-To: <68.33a599b6.2c714a53@aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c36671$101d7750$27969e44@NEWDELL20> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hey Wim, I'm wondering if it is just more noticeable when the left string is out of commission, but still actually dampens the same. I have three thicknesses of yarn that I always use. I find that leveling the strings first, making sure the heads are square/level and putting the yarn into the tri felts leaves me very little to tweak. Of course, a few days resting on the strings will help, usually. The yarn should spread the tricord felt, pressing on that offending string more and eventually the felt compresses nicely on both sides to mate with the strings. Did you use precut Steinway felt? Good luck with it. Lance Lafargue, RPT -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Wimblees@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 4:15 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: damper problem I just got done restringing a D, including new dampers. I also put on a new set of h/s/f. As I was doing my last voicing, I discovered that when I put on the shift, about 4 or 5 notes would not dampen the right string cleanly. Under normal playing, these dampers work fine. But with the shift, the right string rings on just a little more than I want. I tried adjust the damper head, but to no avail. In fact, the more I tilted the head to the right, the worse the problem got. When I tilted the head to the left, it didn't solve the problem either. It is not the adjacent damper lifter holding the damper up. I checked that. I'm at a loss. Any one know why this is happening, and what I can do to correct the problem? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/5f/a6/59/e8/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From fssturm@unm.edu Tue Aug 19 23:29:59 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:29:59 -0600 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers Message-ID: <2035226.1061310599@dhcp-40-0344.unm.edu> Keeping a bunch of Dampp-Chaser systems filled is a bit of a task. It's nice to use a large tank of some sort, but getting water into the tank from an available faucet can be a challenge. A key (or access) to the janitors closet can help, but it is often far away from the systems needing water. I just came up with a solution to this problem that fit my budget (didn't cost a red cent): an old bicycle innertube (the smaller, "English" style, as opposed to fat, "mountain bike"). One cut, and it turns into a hose that fits over a faucet quite nicely. Innertubes do have a white powder (probably talc) inside, so need to be flushed. But it saved me a few minutes this morning. Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico PS Best to avoid modern innertubes filled with "Slime" (a green substance used to stop flats). I'm not sure you could flush that stuff out. From Cramer@BrandonU.CA Wed Aug 20 01:01:17 2003 From: Cramer@BrandonU.CA (Mark Cramer) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:01:17 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <2035226.1061310599@dhcp-40-0344.unm.edu> Message-ID: Good one Fred. A former student-assistant here found a portable shower-head with a short hose, and a rubber thing that fits over faucets on the other end. It worked just fine, until the janitorial head who spawned the idea by refusing to grant us keys for four years running, retired and put an end to all our ingenious fun. :>) Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? Until Otto divulges the authentic "fire-fighters nickname" for the back-pack unit he described in Dallas, we're doomed to toting a 10 gallon garbage can up and down hallways on a 4-wheeled cart. best regards, Mark Cramer, Brandon University -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:30 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers Keeping a bunch of Dampp-Chaser systems filled is a bit of a task. It's nice to use a large tank of some sort, but getting water into the tank from an available faucet can be a challenge. A key (or access) to the janitors closet can help, but it is often far away from the systems needing water. I just came up with a solution to this problem that fit my budget (didn't cost a red cent): an old bicycle innertube (the smaller, "English" style, as opposed to fat, "mountain bike"). One cut, and it turns into a hose that fits over a faucet quite nicely. Innertubes do have a white powder (probably talc) inside, so need to be flushed. But it saved me a few minutes this morning. Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico PS Best to avoid modern innertubes filled with "Slime" (a green substance used to stop flats). I'm not sure you could flush that stuff out. _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Wimblees@aol.com Wed Aug 20 01:12:28 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:12:28 EDT Subject: damper problem, solution Message-ID: <14e.22b4f38e.2c7416ec@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Thanks to those who gave some advice. The problem is in the agraff section of the trichords. I discovered that the problem was not so much string leveling, but string spacing, as Mary suggested. But instead of working with the dampers, I put a screw driver between the agraff of the adjacent string and the right string that was ringing, and twisted the screw driver. This brought the right string closer to the middle. That solved the problem. It is still a mystery why the right string kept ringing only with the shift engaged. During normal playing all three strings are activated by the hammer. And with the shift only the middle and right strings ring. So why is only the right string ringing? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/e9/7d/2e/9f/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From imatunr@srvinet.com Wed Aug 20 01:23:08 2003 From: imatunr@srvinet.com (Joe And Penny Goss) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:23:08 -0600 Subject: damper problem, solution References: <14e.22b4f38e.2c7416ec@aol.com> Message-ID: <00b501c366b1$3c27ed40$ed37bbd0@setup00> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Just to bug you? Joe Goss imatunr@srvinet.com www.mothergoosetools.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wimblees@aol.com=20 To: caut@ptg.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: Re: damper problem, solution Thanks to those who gave some advice.=20 The problem is in the agraff section of the trichords. I discovered = that the problem was not so much string leveling, but string spacing, as = Mary suggested. But instead of working with the dampers, I put a screw = driver between the agraff of the adjacent string and the right string = that was ringing, and twisted the screw driver. This brought the right = string closer to the middle. That solved the problem.=20 It is still a mystery why the right string kept ringing only with the = shift engaged. During normal playing all three strings are activated by = the hammer. And with the shift only the middle and right strings ring. = So why is only the right string ringing? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/00/bb/16/f6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From harvey@greenwood.net Wed Aug 20 00:47:47 2003 From: harvey@greenwood.net (Jim Harvey) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:47:47 -0400 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <2035226.1061310599@dhcp-40-0344.unm.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030819194329.01da69e0@mail.greenwood.net> At 04:29 PM 8/19/2003 -0600, you wrote: > Keeping a bunch of Dampp-Chaser systems filled is a bit of a > task. It's nice to use a large tank of some sort, but getting water into > the tank from an available faucet can be a challenge. A key... You go, Fred! Perfect example of thinking out of the box. Succinct, clear, idiot-proof, and best of all, generates thoughts of "why didn't I think of that?". If I were still editor, I'd be asking for permission to publish this in the Journal. Jeannie, are you on this list? Thanks! -jh- From harvey@greenwood.net Wed Aug 20 01:30:44 2003 From: harvey@greenwood.net (Jim Harvey) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:30:44 -0400 Subject: damper problem, solution In-Reply-To: <14e.22b4f38e.2c7416ec@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030819202832.01da6810@mail.greenwood.net> At 08:12 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, you wrote: >The problem is in the agraff section of the trichords. I discovered that >the problem was not so much string leveling, but string spacing, as Mary >suggested. But instead of working with the dampers, I put a screw driver >between the agraff of the adjacent string and the right string that was >ringing, and twisted the screw driver. This brought the right string >closer to the middle. That solved the problem. > >It is still a mystery why the right string kept ringing only with the >shift engaged. During normal playing all three strings are activated by >the hammer. And with the shift only the middle and right strings ring. So >why is only the right string ringing? Wim, while you are mystifying, consider that no one suggested the repair method that you elected to use. -jh- From harvey@greenwood.net Wed Aug 20 01:42:54 2003 From: harvey@greenwood.net (Jim Harvey) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:42:54 -0400 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: <2035226.1061310599@dhcp-40-0344.unm.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030819203209.01db19e8@mail.greenwood.net> At 07:01 PM 8/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? > >Until Otto divulges the authentic "fire-fighters nickname" for the back-pack >unit he described in Dallas, we're doomed to toting a 10 gallon garbage can >up and down hallways on a 4-wheeled cart. Mark, fortunately I don't have to deal with refilling on a routine basis. However, while reading the intro portion of Fred's message, I thought he was about to suggest filling the inner tube with water, even to the point of bursting, then slinging it over his shoulder like a bandellero, bandi, uh, across-the-chest cartridge sling. When empty -- fold it up, store it away. Since the story didn't end that way, that made me think of the hiker/bicycler hydrator packpacks that seem to be growing in popularity. Dunno about how much water they'll hold, though. -jh- From RNossaman@cox.net Wed Aug 20 02:57:44 2003 From: RNossaman@cox.net (Ron Nossaman) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:57:44 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030819203209.01db19e8@mail.greenwood.net> References: <2035226.1061310599@dhcp-40-0344.unm.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819204235.01ac6c50@pop.central.cox.net> >Mark, fortunately I don't have to deal with refilling on a routine basis. Me too, and rather like it. >However, while reading the intro portion of Fred's message, I thought he >was about to suggest filling the inner tube with water, even to the point >of bursting, then slinging it over his shoulder like a bandellero, bandi, >uh, across-the-chest cartridge sling. When empty -- fold it up, store it away. Me too, and rather liked it. >Since the story didn't end that way, that made me think of the >hiker/bicycler hydrator packpacks that seem to be growing in popularity. >Dunno about how much water they'll hold, though. How about a big beer keg with a pump on a two wheeler? A few hazardous materials warning stickers on the keg will clear a wide path in the halls with minimal effort, but the shape will tend to accumulate an entourage behind. Just as well get some entertainment out of an otherwise unpleasant job. Ron N From kam544@gbronline.com Wed Aug 20 03:53:55 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:53:55 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: >...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? Here's what I've been doing for years: This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front boards. I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks are. I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this task. Keith McGavern Registered Piano Technician Oklahoma Chapter 731 Piano Technicians Guild USA From okeyes@uidaho.edu Wed Aug 20 16:21:38 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:21:38 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers References: Message-ID: <000901c3672e$c03bd8d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Mark, you have forced my hand. In the vernacular, it was called a "p--s pump", unmentionable in polite society. This information, however, does not assist one in obtaining the afore-mentioned bladder pack. In actuality, they were probably much smaller than I described, but clawing one's way up a smoking mountainside has one the effect of inflating bladder and weight in memory. As I recall, one could cover a good bit of ground between re-fills, but surveying the distance between present position and water supply, and calculating effort expended to traverse said distance, had a positive outcome economy of water use. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Cramer" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > Good one Fred. > > A former student-assistant here found a portable shower-head with a short > hose, and a rubber thing that fits over faucets on the other end. > > It worked just fine, until the janitorial head who spawned the idea by > refusing to grant us keys for four years running, retired and put an end to > all our ingenious fun. :>) > > Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? > > Until Otto divulges the authentic "fire-fighters nickname" for the back-pack > unit he described in Dallas, we're doomed to toting a 10 gallon garbage can > up and down hallways on a 4-wheeled cart. > > best regards, > Mark Cramer, > Brandon University > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > Fred Sturm > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:30 PM > To: caut@ptg.org > Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > Keeping a bunch of Dampp-Chaser systems filled is a bit of a task. It's > nice to use a large tank of some sort, but getting water into the tank from > an available faucet can be a challenge. A key (or access) to the janitors > closet can help, but it is often far away from the systems needing water. > I just came up with a solution to this problem that fit my budget (didn't > cost a red cent): an old bicycle innertube (the smaller, "English" style, > as opposed to fat, "mountain bike"). One cut, and it turns into a hose that > fits over a faucet quite nicely. Innertubes do have a white powder > (probably talc) inside, so need to be flushed. But it saved me a few > minutes this morning. > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > PS Best to avoid modern innertubes filled with "Slime" (a green substance > used to stop flats). I'm not sure you could flush that stuff out. > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From kam544@gbronline.com Wed Aug 20 19:55:52 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:55:52 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:53 PM -0500 8/19/03, Keith McGavern wrote: >... From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that I walk to the pianos. ... I forgot to mention that I put a hole in the neck of the jugs on the backside to help facilitate the flow of water. Keith McGavern PS - Interesting spelling for empty empth :-) From leifo@image.dk Thu Aug 21 00:11:16 2003 From: leifo@image.dk (Leif Olsen) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:11:16 +0200 Subject: damper problem In-Reply-To: <002c01c36671$101d7750$27969e44@NEWDELL20> Message-ID: Hello Wim and others. Why the rightmost string won't stop ringing? It is normaly said, that the pianopedal works by letting the trichord sound with only two soundmaking strings, but I don't believe this to be so simple. When one string is broken in a bichord, it is remarkable how little this is noticed by a normaly customer. I used to tell him, that our ear is "logaritmic", and that you should go to half the volume before the normal ear hears a reduction at all. (If your have replaced two strings of a trichord at the customer and you won't be back for retuning "before Christmas", then he should be well of with a wedge between the two new strings, listening to only one third of that tone). Back to Wim's trichord which should be reduced only by a third of its volume and so not a perceptible decrease. Moreover I believe it is not reduced that much either, because if you play with a certain energy and then reduce the trichord to a bichord, the hammer must be stopped all the same and in this way must deliver more energy to each of the two strings. When the pianopedal still has a perceptible effect, I think it is mostly because the (two)strings is struck by a more "fresh" piece of the hammerhead and probably not as "level" as the "normal" striking points. When the rightmost string won't stop ringing, it could be because this string (with pianopedal) gets most of the impact and so is harder to stop or sounds with more high harmonics due to more severe deformation in the hitting moment. From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Wed Aug 20 20:25:51 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:25:51 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c pitch changes to knock my head against. Alan McCoy > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > Keith McGavern > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > >...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? > > Here's what I've been doing for years: > > This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > boards. > > I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > > During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > are. > > I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > > If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > > I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this task. > > Keith McGavern > Registered Piano Technician > Oklahoma Chapter 731 > Piano Technicians Guild > USA > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Wed Aug 20 20:44:55 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:44:55 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030820194455.00a5bdb8@accesscomm.ca> Hi Alan, If they won't control humidity a good case can be made that floating the pitch is less harmful to the longevity of the instrument. Start that with the professor's pianos. At 12:25 PM 8/20/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of >getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c pitch >changes to knock my head against. > >Alan McCoy Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From kam544@gbronline.com Thu Aug 21 03:28:59 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:28:59 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:25 PM -0700 8/20/03, Alan McCoy wrote: >Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of >getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. Alan, These systems were installed when the pianos were purchased new. The administration was convinced it would be an excellent means to preserve the initial investment and benefit the music program over all. >And, of course, 20-30c pitch >changes to knock my head against. Do I ever remember those pitch drifts ... EVERY SEMESTER ... Now it's float, float, float. Of course, this doesn't eliminate the majority of the remaining grands and uprights that don't have the systems. But I am very thankful to the powers that be for what there is! Take care, Keith McGavern From dltassinpiano@juno.com Fri Aug 22 04:25:25 2003 From: dltassinpiano@juno.com (dan tassin) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:25:25 -0500 Subject: How Does A Piano Get to Carnegie Hall ? Message-ID: <20030821.223013.-234331.6.dltassinpiano@juno.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi, Everyone, I was cleaning out some files when I found this artical from the N.Y.Times back in May. Maybe many of you have seen it. For those who haven't, I thought it was good reading, and you might learn something you didn't know before. .............. Enjoy !! Danny Tassin, RPT DLTassinpiano@Juno.com' School Tech at Jackson State Comm. College ====================================================== This article from NYTimes.com -------------------- How Does a Piano Get to Carnegie Hall? May 11, 2003 By JAMES BARRON The contest was between a giant sandwich of wood - 18 strips of maple, each about half as long as a city bus - and half a dozen workers with muscles, a pneumatic wrench and a time-conscious foreman. The workers were supposed to bend and shove those 18 strips into a familiar-looking shape, and beat the clock. "We're allotted 20 minutes," the foreman, Joseph Gurrado, muttered. After 14 minutes of pushing and pulling and flexing and grunting that another boss standing nearby called "the Fred Flintstone part of the operation," the wood was forced into a curve. And, in the too-warm basement of a gritty factory that opened when Ulysses S. Grant was president, piano No. K0862 was born. Like other newborns, it came with hopes for greatness and fears that it might not measure up despite a distinguished family name, Steinway. Or that it would be grumbled about by Steinway's customers - temperamental, obsessive, finicky pianists whose love-hate relationship with the company and its products is as complicated and emotional as anything in Chekhov. Yes, pianists grouse that Steinways are not what they used to be. Yes, pianists ascribe whatever faults they found in whatever Steinway they just played to every Steinway. And no, the majority would never play anything but. Steinway knows all this. Like No. K0862, every new piano that rolls out of the Steinway & Sons factory - in Astoria, Queens, next to oil tanks that block the view of the Rikers Island jails - is an attempt to refute the notion that the only good Steinway is an old Steinway. So how good will No. K0862 be? Will it sound like "a squadron of dive bombers," as the pianist Gary Graffman said of a Steinway he hated on first hearing but came to love? Or will it begin life with the enormous bass and sweet-singing treble that pianists prize the way wine lovers prize a 1989 Romanée-Conti? Will it be good enough for Steinway's concert division, which supplies pianos to big-name artists? No one can say. Not yet. It will take about eight months to finish No. K0862, an 8-foot 11 3/8-inch concert grand. Along the way, the rim will be aged in a room as dim as a wine cellar. It will be sprayed with lacquer, rubbed and sprayed again. Its 340-pound iron plate will be lowered in and lifted out 10 or 12 times. It will spend time in rooms where workers wear oxygen masks to avoid getting headaches (or getting high) from smelly glues. It will be broken in by a machine that plays scales without complaint, unlike a student. Someone walking through the factory, following the progress of No. K0862, could forget a basic fact about what goes on there: Every Steinway is made the same way from the same materials by the same workers. Yet every Steinway ends up being different from every other - not in appearance, perhaps, but in ways that are not easily put into words: colorations of sound, nuances of strength or delicacy, what some pianists call personality. Some Steinways end up sounding small or mellow, fine for chamber music. Some are so percussive a full-strength orchestra cannot drown them out. On some, the keys move with little effort. On others, the pianist's hands and arms get a workout. Why? No one at Steinway can really say. Perhaps it is the wood. No matter how carefully Steinway selects or prepares each batch, some trees get more sunlight than others in the forest, and some get more water. Certain piano technicians say uncontrollable factors make the difference. Perhaps, in a plant where everyone is an expert craftsman, some are great, others merely good. Someday, if its personality turns out to be extroverted but not strident, if its key action turns out to be loose but not mushy, No. K0862 may be pounded or caressed in public by someone like Alfred Brendel or Maurizio Pollini at Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center. First, though, No. K0862 will be pounded and caressed in the factory by woodworkers with tattoos on their burly arms, by technicians known as bellymen, by tuners confident that they can improve it, no matter how good it sounds at first. There is Anthony Biondi, 31, who was hired nine years ago as a veneer cutter, someone who selects wood for rims. His tools include the oldest machine still used in the factory, a 130-year-old cutter, and the newest, a million-dollar trimmer that arrived in January. There is his boss, Mr. Gurrado, the foreman. In a company once legendary for its "lifers," he is a new kind of middle manager. When Steinway hired him in 2000, he had no experience in woodworking but 15 years of manufacturing everything from leather goods to lemonade. He replaced a foreman who retired after 41 years of making Steinway rims. And there is Andrew Horbachevsky, the 44-year-old manufacturing director, who has worked for Steinway for 15 years. "This company kind of sucks you in," he said. "I've had a dream where my wife turned into a piano." A Holdout in Queens Steinway remains one of the last outposts of hand craftsmanship in a machine-dominated industry in what was once a boomtown for piano makers. Steinway is now one of the last large manufacturing operations in New York City, which the State Labor Department says lost 666,400 factory jobs between 1962 and the end of last year, when 217,000 remained. Unlike competitors that left for plants in the Sun Belt, Steinway has stayed put. The factory was originally the centerpiece of a 400-acre company town where Steinway workers lived in Steinway-built houses and shopped at Steinway-owned stores. By moving everything but their store and their offices out of Manhattan, the Steinways hoped to elude 19th-century labor turmoil. They succeeded, for a while. Eventually, the Steinways sold all but 11 acres, and, in 1972 they sold the company itself, which was unionized in the 1930's. But their name remains on Steinway Street, and company officials say that most of the 450 workers at the plant still live in the neighborhood. Mr. Biondi, the veneer cutter, bicycles to work in warm weather. Real Ebony? $50,000 Now as in the past, the products made in the Steinway factory are famous, and famously expensive. No. K0862 will sell for about the same as one of the most expensive Mercedes-Benz coupes: $92,800. No. K0862 will have what Steinway calls an ebonized finish, meaning it will be painted black. Real ebony is available, for an extra $50,000: Steinway says it has no effect on the sound. But the guts of every concert grand - the strings, the hammers that strike them, the keys to which the hammers are attached - are identical. That raises the question of age. Is a brand-new piano ready the moment it leaves the factory? Maybe, maybe not. In the 1920's, a golden age for Steinway, there were probably pianists and tuners who whined that the best pianos were those made at the end of the 19th century. There are certainly pianists today with a fondness if not a reverence for Steinways from the 1920's and 1930's. "The majority of instruments from back then, there's a level of color and personality that is undeniable," said the pianist Stephen Hough. As for what comes out of the factory these days, the pianist Erika Nickrenz said: "The brand-new Steinways tend to be a little blank. They have all the characteristics, but it takes pianists to play them and really bring out what's there." But, in a tryout at Steinway's showroom in Manhattan, she preferred a concert grand that left the factory on April 27 to four others, including one from 1962. "Older is not better, and we can prove it," said Bruce A. Stevens, the company's president. "Where that started was with people who make their living rebuilding Steinways, and they tell their customers that. We've just about given up rebutting it." But not completely. A moment later, he used the word poppycock. Determining which pianos are great is terribly subjective. In 1981, The Atlantic Monthly watched Steinway assemble a concert grand, No. K2571. By the time the magazine published its 18,000-word article, that piano had been put before André-Michel Schub, who picked a different instrument for a recital at the factory. But Richard Goode played No. K2571 at Alice Tully Hall. And then, when it was not quite two years old, Rudolf Serkin adopted it. "He wasn't really happy with the Steinways he had been playing in concert," recalled the manager of Steinway's dealership in Boston, Paul Murphy. So Steinway lined up half a dozen grands for Serkin to try. He chose No. K2571 and had it shipped first to the Marlboro Music Festival in Vermont and later to his studio nearby. It stayed there until shortly before his death in 1991, when Mr. Murphy delivered a new piano, hauled away No. K2571 and gave it the equivalent of a 100,000-mile tuneup. Mr. Murphy later sold No. K2571 to a medical student from Japan. She took it to Kyoto. Guts of Steel In the two decades since that piano left the factory, Steinway has done some modernizing. Computer-generated bar codes now track the parts of a piano in the making. In 1981, one way that was done was on file cards in the pocket of a great-grandson of the company's founder. Machines now cut the wood for the lids and legs - something done by hand until about 15 years ago. "This is furniture-making," Mr. Horbachevsky said. But he added, "There are operations we can't automate because that would take the soul out of Steinway." One of those operations is the one Mr. Gurrado inherited last year, rim-bending. It had gone unchanged for so long because the piano has gone unchanged for so long. What Steinway's original square pianos - or its earliest grands - did not have were rigid rims. The company's second generation perfected that. One of the Steinways after the ampersand in the company's name, C.F. Theodore Steinway, held more than 40 patents and collaborated with the physicist Hermann von Helmholtz to marry the methodology of science to the making of pianos. They reasoned that longer and stronger strings would produce a larger and louder sound but would also put extreme pressure on the rim. C.F. Theodore Steinway's solution is Mr. Gurrado's: rim lamination. C.F. Theodore Steinway figured that gluing thin strips of wood together would create a rim noticeably stronger and more durable than one crafted from just one or two thick boards. Even the glue would add strength. Laminating the rim was one of the innovations that made possible an instrument with a big sound, the grand piano Steinway has manufactured ever since. When a Book Is a Sandwich The eight-month manufacturing schedule for No. K0862 does not include the morning Mr. Biondi spent slicing the stack of wood for the rim into pieces 3/16 of an inch thick and roughly eight feet long. Nor the time he spent taping those pieces into 22-foot-long strips to form the "book," as the sandwich of wood that becomes a rim is known at the factory. Among Steinway's workers, Mr. Horbachevsky says, rim-bending was once dominated by Italians. No one can say for sure why they were hired for those jobs more often than for others, but when a job was available, someone at Steinway would tell a friend, who would apply. In the 1980's, Caribbean immigrants began taking the place of Italians who retired. In the 1990's, the labor pool changed again. Now the crew includes three Bosnians. Among them is Nazif Sutrovic, who was a police official in Sarajevo during the 1984 Winter Olympics and has worked at Steinway since 1997. Apologizing for his balky English, he says, "I don't have time to go to school." He has another job, as the superintendent of a Brooklyn apartment building. The Wood Gets Amnesia On the way to what Steinway calls the rim-bending machine - though it is essentially a piano-shaped vise perfected by C. F. Theodore Steinway, and has no motor - Mr. Gurrado's crew made an important stop They fed the book, layer by layer, through a glue-spreader that looks something like a washer with a wringer. At the far end, two workers, Tommy Stavrianos and Jean Robert Laguerre, dipped brushes in glue pots for touch-ups. Mr. Stavrianos - at 28, the youngest man on the crew - and his colleagues talk proudly of the pianos they make and the company's traditions. But they are not the concert-hall regulars that their pianos are. The radios around the factory play soft rock and jazz, not stations where Steinway artists are often heard. The rim-benders use their physical strength in a way that is unusual in a modern factory. At 9:54 a.m., the crew leader, Eric Lall, is busy shoving the book into place along the side of the piano where the keys for the bass notes will be. He begins tightening spindles on the clamps while Patrick Acosta, 30, uses a long-handled lever to force the rest of the book toward the big curve at the end. Mr. Acosta says this is all the exercise he needs, or gets: "I build pianos. That's my workout." The lever in his hands weighs 80 pounds. The clamps - "posts," the crew calls them - are 65 pounds each. At 10:10, with a whack from Mr. Acosta, the rim is done. "Fourteen minutes," Mr. Gurrado says. The time allotted for bending a rim is 20 to 25 minutes. As he explains, "We're working against the glue." It begins to set that fast. The rim spends its first 24 hours clamped in place. "Wood has a memory," Mr. Gurrado says. The day in the clamps is deprogramming time, so the wood will forget its past and not pop out of its new shape. After three days across the workroom from where it was bent - Mr. Gurrado does not want to shock it by moving it out of a by-now-familiar environment too quickly - it goes to a room that looks like a wine cellar but is warm and dry and on an upper floor in the factory. It will spend about 60 days there, with 500 other rims that are awaiting sounding boards, plates and keys. "It's going to be whatever it's going to be, good or whatever," Mr. Stavrianos says after parking it there. "There's nothing you can do now but wait. It's out of our hands." http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/11/nyregion/11PIAN.html HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/2d/ad/37/5c/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From drwoodwind@hotmail.com Fri Aug 22 17:04:00 2003 From: drwoodwind@hotmail.com (Ron Koval) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:04:00 +0000 Subject: room keys Message-ID: Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms unlocked? At Concordia U, there are about 30 pianos. (The count is somewhat fluid....) The music dept. has been unable (or unwilling) to get me a set of keys to gain access to the pianos I am to service. Since I come early in the morning or late at night to miss the students, faculty and community programs, I've had to wait for security to come and open up doors. Fortunately, I set up service by-the-hour, so the U has paid for my waiting around time. Finally, I asked if the music dept. and security would be willing to have a set of keys held at the security desk that I could sign out for my tuning visits. Wonder-of-wonders, this worked. Now, I just check in at security any time of day or night, and the keys are there. (Even the keys for the keyboard locks, too!) Enjoy bulk tuning season..... (STWY M in vocal studio was at +30 cents today...oh boy..) Ron Koval Chicagoland _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From TuneHunter@aol.com Fri Aug 22 18:53:59 2003 From: TuneHunter@aol.com (TuneHunter@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:53:59 EDT Subject: room keys Message-ID: <44.34497e59.2c77b2b7@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/22/2003 12:16:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drwoodwind@hotmail.com writes: > Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms unlocked? > I have not any trouble getting doors unlocked, because I have my own set of keys, however, I have had trouble getting doors OPEN because of the humidity! (A new record has been set here...82% r.h. and 66 degrees F.) If they're not going to budget money for Dampp-Chasers, I wish they'd at least provide a few bucks for a raincoat! Happy tuning! Sheila Hunter (Cold and wet in the dungeon of the Fine Arts Center of Salem College, Winston-Salem, NC) ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/5c/32/93/57/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From stranges@Oswego.EDU Fri Aug 22 19:07:55 2003 From: stranges@Oswego.EDU (stranges@Oswego.EDU) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:07:55 -0400 Subject: room keys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62405.3270550075@stranges.oswego.edu> OH Ron!!! You said a MOUTHFULL. Between boy/girl scouts and afterschool activities in the large school district I have AS WELL AS the college I work at- To say me and the custodians are close is the UNDERSTATEMENT of the YEAR. Actully- if I may say bluntly-- it's a big pain in the ass. I love the school district though and they love me- and they pay well... but some nights... UGH!!! You know what I did that also helps?? I got me a PICTURE ID. THey were all too happy to get one for me through the school district. Now I don't get weird looks and have to explain myself. (Well- I always get weird looks and have to explain myself- but that's for other reasons..) :B Your comrade, Michelle --On Friday, August 22, 2003 4:04 PM +0000 Ron Koval wrote: > Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms > unlocked? > > At Concordia U, there are about 30 pianos. (The count is somewhat > fluid....) The music dept. has been unable (or unwilling) to get me a set > of keys to gain access to the pianos I am to service. Since I come early > in the morning or late at night to miss the students, faculty and > community programs, I've had to wait for security to come and open up > doors. Fortunately, I set up service by-the-hour, so the U has paid for > my waiting around time. > > Finally, I asked if the music dept. and security would be willing to have > a set of keys held at the security desk that I could sign out for my > tuning visits. Wonder-of-wonders, this worked. Now, I just check in at > security any time of day or night, and the keys are there. (Even the > keys for the keyboard locks, too!) > > Enjoy bulk tuning season..... (STWY M in vocal studio was at +30 cents > today...oh boy..) > > Ron Koval > Chicagoland > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no Fri Aug 22 19:58:22 2003 From: Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no (Richard Brekne) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:58:22 +0200 Subject: room keys References: Message-ID: <3F4667CE.85F634B4@grieg.uib.no> I have a master key for the whole Conservatory. And I have master keys for 6 schools I work for regularly. I make it a precondition for working there and am lucky enough to be in a position to be able to decline to accept the work unless this condition is acceptable to them. Your solution is a good one tho.. and I would have no problem working under those conditions either. Cheers RicB Ron Koval wrote: > Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms unlocked? > > At Concordia U, there are about 30 pianos. (The count is somewhat fluid....) > The music dept. has been unable (or unwilling) to get me a set of keys to > gain access to the pianos I am to service. Since I come early in the > morning or late at night to miss the students, faculty and community > programs, I've had to wait for security to come and open up doors. > Fortunately, I set up service by-the-hour, so the U has paid for my waiting > around time. > > Finally, I asked if the music dept. and security would be willing to have a > set of keys held at the security desk that I could sign out for my tuning > visits. Wonder-of-wonders, this worked. Now, I just check in at security > any time of day or night, and the keys are there. (Even the keys for the > keyboard locks, too!) > > Enjoy bulk tuning season..... (STWY M in vocal studio was at +30 cents > today...oh boy..) > > Ron Koval > Chicagoland > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html From skline@peak.org Sun Aug 24 00:16:56 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:16:56 -0700 Subject: room keys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030823161324.0289f880@mail.peak.org> At 04:04 PM 8/22/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms unlocked? Mostly not. I have keys to get into the piano onstage storage area, and the music office. The secretary keeps the others for me in an envelope hidden in her office. Works well. Parking is a greater problem for me than availability of pianos, and that's why I tend to tune on weekends, late, etc. Yes practice room tunings are just around the corner! August will seem quite leisurely in comparison. Susan Kline Linfield College McMinnville, OR From dm.porritt@verizon.net Sun Aug 24 00:54:54 2003 From: dm.porritt@verizon.net (David M. Porritt) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:54:54 -0500 Subject: room keys In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030823161324.0289f880@mail.peak.org> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030823161324.0289f880@mail.peak.org> Message-ID: <200308231854540440.02461324@outgoing.verizon.net> Susan: I've found that parking is not a problem if you get there before 7:00am! I am more an early person than a late one, so that suits my style. Also, our building was re-keyed about 10 years ago with all new Abloy (Finnish Co.) locks. I have 3 master keys that will get me any place that has a piano. That's a wonderful change from the old 4-inch ring of keys I had before. I had a 2 page printout of which key for which door. Not a speedy or convenient method. dave *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/23/2003 at 4:16 PM Susan Kline wrote: >At 04:04 PM 8/22/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >>Any other contract techs out there have a hard time getting rooms >unlocked? > >Mostly not. I have keys to get into the piano onstage storage >area, and the music office. The secretary keeps the others for me in >an envelope hidden in her office. Works well. > >Parking is a greater problem for me than availability of pianos, >and that's why I tend to tune on weekends, late, etc. > >Yes practice room tunings are just around the corner! August will >seem quite leisurely in comparison. > >Susan Kline >Linfield College >McMinnville, OR > >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut **************** END MESSAGE FROM Susan Kline ********************* _____________________________ David M. Porritt dporritt@mail.smu.edu Meadows School of the Arts Southern Methodist University Dallas, TX 75275 _____________________________ From skline@peak.org Sun Aug 24 01:41:03 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:41:03 -0700 Subject: room keys In-Reply-To: <200308231854540440.02461324@outgoing.verizon.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030823161324.0289f880@mail.peak.org> <5.0.0.25.2.20030823161324.0289f880@mail.peak.org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030823173824.028a6120@mail.peak.org> At 06:54 PM 8/23/2003 -0500, Dave wrote: >Susan: > >I've found that parking is not a problem if you get there before >7:00am! I am more an early person than a late one, so that suits my >style. Also, our building was re-keyed about 10 years ago with all >new Abloy (Finnish Co.) locks. I have 3 master keys that will get me >any place that has a piano. That's a wonderful change from the old >4-inch ring of keys I had before. I had a 2 page printout of which >key for which door. Not a speedy or convenient method. > >dave A 4-inch key ring!! I totally agree. What a nightmare. The problem with coming early is that I live an hour and ten minutes away. To get there by 7:00 a.m. I would have to leave home at 5:45 or so. I agree it would be better, just hard to do. And sometimes I stay for evening concerts, and then drive the hour + home after that. Just too long a day. Susan From dmckech@ithaca.edu Mon Aug 25 17:42:48 2003 From: dmckech@ithaca.edu (Don McKechnie) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:42:48 -0700 Subject: NYSCON 03 Message-ID: <3F4A3C88.E730D54D@ithaca.edu> List, NYSCON 03 is approaching fast. If you missed Dallas, NYSCON 03 is the next best event. Roger Wheelock will be presenting at the CAUT Forum. Please read the information below and visit the NYSCON web site for more information. Don McKechnie A Special invitation to join us a the NYSCON conference of the Piano Technicians Guild Inc. www.ptg.org/nyscon Preparations are currently underway for NYSCON 2003. We will be meeting at the Nevele Grande Resort and Country Club in Ellenville NY, September 25 - 28, 2003. Yes, it’s in the Catskills! Plan to join us in this historic part of New York State, only a short drive north of New York City. Our own Ken Walkup is planning a comprehensive and varied institute program with all sorts of interesting classes on piano technology featuring some of the world’s greatest instructors. After a full day of classes you and your friends can relax on the resort’s 27 Hole, championship golf course or play some tennis and racquetball inside their huge indoor sports facility. There’s also horseback riding, roller blading, boating and fishing. This will be a conference like no other. Make it your mini vacation. You can bring the whole family! See for yourself by visiting www.nevele.com. Chuck Erbsmehl our conference chair is doing a superb job of organizing the whole event and he has asked me to invite you and all the members of your chapter to attend. So on behalf of the New York State and Ontario chapters of the Piano Technicians Guild we hope to see you all there. Start planning now! Please share this information with your fellow members, colleagues and friends. The DEADLINE for early registration is SEPTEMBER 4th. Only a few days left to take advantage of our early registration so click here and REGISTER NOW ONLINE Check out our new classes 2003 NYSCON Conference September 25 - 28, 2003 Nevelle Grande Resort & Country Club Ellenville, NY 800-647-6000 www.nevele.com Contact: Charles R. Erbsmehl RPT ,chair NYSCON 335 Chestnut St. Fredonia, NY14063 716-679-4530 E-mail: erbsmehl@netsync.net From dmannino@kawaius.com Mon Aug 25 18:07:18 2003 From: dmannino@kawaius.com (Don Mannino) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:07:18 -0700 Subject: NYSCON 03 Message-ID: <8B311A9E826A90428FC6647C6A1D858A4EBB43@exchange-2000.kawaiamerica.com> List, At the risk of scaring some potential attendees away (my apologies to Don McKechnie!), I thought I would note that Nick Gravagne won't be able to attend the New York State convention, so the second-string technician (me) will be representing Kawai at the conference instead. My apologies to those who were hoping to attend Nick's classes. I will be presenting my old favorite class on efficient and accurate action center service using broaches, plus a class on upright regulation which I presented in Dallas called "Vertical Action Regulation - Maximum Results in Minimum Time." For those who are near by, I will also be giving a post-convention Kawai factory voicing seminar at the new Kawai new dealer in Orange, CT (near New Haven). It will be held Monday evening, September 29th, and is free to all who wish to attend. Please e-mail for the address or talk to me at the NY state convention if you think you might want to come. Don Mannino RPT > -----Original Message----- > From: Don McKechnie [mailto:dmckech@ithaca.edu] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 9:43 AM > To: caut@ptg.org > Subject: NYSCON 03 > > > List, > > NYSCON 03 is approaching fast. If you missed Dallas, NYSCON > 03 is the next best event. Roger Wheelock will be presenting > at the CAUT Forum. Please read the information below and > visit the NYSCON web site for more information. > > Don McKechnie > > A Special invitation to join us a the NYSCON conference of > the Piano Technicians Guild Inc. > > www.ptg.org/nyscon > > Preparations are currently underway for NYSCON 2003. We will > be meeting at the Nevele Grande Resort and Country Club in > Ellenville NY, September 25 - 28, 2003. Yes, it's in the > Catskills! Plan to join us in this historic part of New York > State, only a short drive north of New York City. Our own Ken > Walkup is planning a comprehensive and varied institute > program with all sorts of interesting classes on piano > technology featuring some of the world's greatest > instructors. After a full day of classes you and your friends > can relax on the resort's 27 Hole, championship golf course > or play some tennis and racquetball inside their huge indoor > sports facility. There's also horseback riding, roller > blading, boating and fishing. This will be a conference like > no other. Make it your mini vacation. You can bring the whole > family! See for yourself by visiting www.nevele.com. Chuck > Erbsmehl our conference chair is doing a superb job of > organizing the whole event and he has asked me to invite you > and all the members of your chapter to attend. So on behalf > of the New York State and Ontario chapters of the Piano > Technicians Guild we hope to see you all there. Start > planning now! Please share this information with your fellow > members, colleagues and friends. > > The DEADLINE for early registration is SEPTEMBER 4th. > > Only a few days left to take advantage of our early > registration so click here and REGISTER NOW ONLINE > > Check out our new classes > > 2003 NYSCON Conference > > September 25 - 28, 2003 > > Nevelle Grande Resort & Country Club > > Ellenville, NY > > 800-647-6000 > www.nevele.com Contact: Charles R. Erbsmehl RPT ,chair NYSCON 335 Chestnut St. Fredonia, NY14063 716-679-4530 E-mail: erbsmehl@netsync.net _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From Wimblees@aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:17:27 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:17:27 EDT Subject: piano parts, etc Message-ID: <50.21524988.2c7cd407@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I've got the go ahead from our department chair to present a proposal to the faculty curriculum committee for a piano course, which I'm calling "Piano: It's Parts & Functions." I want to use the book by roughly that name, but I don't have it. I need the author and publisher. Any one have that book? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/e2/8b/2d/50/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Tue Aug 26 10:30:23 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:30:23 Subject: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <50.21524988.2c7cd407@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030826093023.00bd6b10@accesscomm.ca> Hi Wim, Are you thinking of the Merle Mason book? At 11:17 AM 8/26/2003 EDT, you wrote: >& Functions." I want to use the book by roughly that name, but I don't have >it. I need the author and publisher. Any one have that book? > > Wim Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From fssturm@unm.edu Tue Aug 26 21:52:02 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:52:02 -0600 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1643608.1061909522@dhcp-40-0486.unm.edu> Hi Alan, Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply to emails, at least sporadically. After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, then some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two additional, possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but I think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus 10, up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for funds to install more. I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a grand. Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy wrote: > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > pitch changes to knock my head against. > > Alan McCoy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of >> Keith McGavern >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM >> To: College and University Technicians >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers >> >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front >> boards. >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks >> are. >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this >> task. >> >> Keith McGavern >> Registered Piano Technician >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 >> Piano Technicians Guild >> USA >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From okeyes@uidaho.edu Wed Aug 27 00:08:00 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:08:00 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers References: <1643608.1061909522@dhcp-40-0486.unm.edu> Message-ID: <000e01c36c26$e501e6d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have seen in some time. However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in the mid-west, we would be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to fix the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may be worse than the disease. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Sturm" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > Hi Alan, > Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses > (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply to > emails, at least sporadically. > After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. > Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, > beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, then > some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate > drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two additional, > possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but I > think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - > would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the ambiant > humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w > installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with > standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). > The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus 10, > up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low > wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they > used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and > 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano > faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for funds > to install more. > I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. > The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a > grand. > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > wrote: > > > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of > > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > > pitch changes to knock my head against. > > > > Alan McCoy > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > >> Keith McGavern > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > >> To: College and University Technicians > >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > >> > >> > >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to room? > >> > >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > >> > >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > >> boards. > >> > >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > >> > >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > >> are. > >> > >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > >> > >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > >> > >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this > >> task. > >> > >> Keith McGavern > >> Registered Piano Technician > >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > >> Piano Technicians Guild > >> USA > >> _______________________________________________ > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From skline@peak.org Wed Aug 27 00:42:34 2003 From: skline@peak.org (Susan Kline) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:42:34 -0700 Subject: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <50.21524988.2c7cd407@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030826163939.01c3bc60@mail.peak.org> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment At 11:17 AM 8/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I've got the go ahead from our department chair to present a proposal to >the faculty curriculum committee for a piano course, which I'm calling >"Piano: It's Parts & Functions." I want to use the book by roughly that >name, but I don't have it. I need the author and publisher. Any one have >that book? > >Wim Yup, I've got it. Steve Brady had me get it when I wrote articles, because it is the official spelling guide for the Journal. Newton Hunt did a lot of the writing. (I _do_ miss Newton ...) "Piano Parts and Their Functions", illustrated by James E. Campbell, compiled by Merle H. Mason. Published by the Guild. Just contact the Home Office and they'll sell you one. Susan ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/1f/c5/9d/52/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From edoss@utm.edu Wed Aug 27 20:16:40 2003 From: edoss@utm.edu (Elwood Doss, Jr.) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:16:40 -0500 Subject: piano moving video Message-ID: <003c01c36ccf$beda1820$26050b0a@utm.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Anyone know of a good piano moving video? I'm looking for one to show to= my work study students so they can see how to move grands and uprights. = For me, all aspects of moving pianos would be helpful, stairs, small hal= lways, etc. Don't mind paying a nominal amount for one. Thanks, Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 106 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-1152 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/f3/9c/d0/2c/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From imatunr@srvinet.com Thu Aug 28 03:28:03 2003 From: imatunr@srvinet.com (Joe And Penny Goss) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:28:03 -0600 Subject: NCRC & NYSCON Message-ID: <00c301c36d0c$0312ba60$ba37bbd0@setup00> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi Gents, The NYSCON conference in September and NCRC conference in October are = comming up rapidly. If you are planing to attend and would like to share=20 non-smoking room please give me a post or call me. I have rooms reserved for both events. Joe Goss imatunr@srvinet.com www.mothergoosetools.com ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/68/45/ce/29/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From fssturm@unm.edu Thu Aug 28 14:43:14 2003 From: fssturm@unm.edu (Fred Sturm) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:43:14 -0600 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <000e01c36c26$e501e6d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> References: <1643608.1061909522@dhcp-40-0486.unm.edu> <000e01c36c26$e501e6d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: <124130.1062056594@dhcp-40-0605.unm.edu> Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, with respect to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and would normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the same actual moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the normal rise in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings without modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. I always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house is probably the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch will stay constant for years :-) Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes wrote: > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have > seen in some time. > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of > pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in > the mid-west, we would > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to fix > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may > be worse than the disease. > > Otto > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Sturm" > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > >> Hi Alan, >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply >> to emails, at least sporadically. >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, > then >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > additional, >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but > I >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus > 10, >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for >> funds to install more. >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a >> grand. >> Regards, >> Fred Sturm >> University of New Mexico >> >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy >> wrote: >> >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. >> > >> > Alan McCoy >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of >> >> Keith McGavern >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM >> >> To: College and University Technicians >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers >> >> >> >> >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > room? >> >> >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: >> >> >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front >> >> boards. >> >> >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. >> >> >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks >> >> are. >> >> >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. >> >> >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. >> >> >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this >> >> task. >> >> >> >> Keith McGavern >> >> Registered Piano Technician >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 >> >> Piano Technicians Guild >> >> USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Thu Aug 28 17:35:58 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:35:58 -0700 Subject: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <50.21524988.2c7cd407@aol.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wim, I assume you are talking about Piano Parts And Their Functions by Merle H. Mason. Available through the home office. Alan -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Wimblees@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:17 AM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: piano parts, etc I've got the go ahead from our department chair to present a proposal to the faculty curriculum committee for a piano course, which I'm calling "Piano: It's Parts & Functions." I want to use the book by roughly that name, but I don't have it. I need the author and publisher. Any one have that book? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/2a/62/24/32/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Thu Aug 28 17:39:59 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:39:59 -0700 Subject: piano moving video In-Reply-To: <003c01c36ccf$beda1820$26050b0a@utm.edu> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Elwood, If you find one, please let me know. Alan -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Elwood Doss, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:17 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: piano moving video Anyone know of a good piano moving video? I'm looking for one to show to my work study students so they can see how to move grands and uprights. For me, all aspects of moving pianos would be helpful, stairs, small hallways, etc. Don't mind paying a nominal amount for one. Thanks, Joy! Elwood Elwood Doss, Jr., RPT Technical Director/Piano Technician Department of Music 106 Fine Arts Building University of Tennessee at Martin 731/587-1152 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/31/c5/77/db/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Thu Aug 28 18:02:19 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:02:19 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <000e01c36c26$e501e6d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: Hi Otto, Fred, et al, Our building is about 30 yrs old. There is a humidifier as a part of the HVAC system, but I am not convinced that it does anything at all. I have tried working with the hvac and energy management people to keep the summer temps up and winter temps down as a way of controlling RH. To no avail. I think that the system is just not all that capable of maintaining a set seasonal temp. So our RH fluctuates. This summer was a hot one, unfortunately they kept the building too cold, like 65, so the RH went into the 60s. In winter the temps get into the mid to upper 70s, so the RH gets down into the lower 20s. Lots and lots of fun. So the question is how much to float. The most I want to float is A-442 or A-438. So if the pitch is higher or lower than that, I'll float to 442 or 438. Otherwise I pick the pitch (often the high bass) that is a middle ground so I am moving the strings as little as possible. Any other ideas? Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > Otto Keyes > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have > seen in some time. > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of > pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume > so, since > it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in the > mid-west, we would > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. > to fix the > problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I need > to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we can have > some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may be worse > than the disease. > > Otto > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Sturm" > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > Hi Alan, > > Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses > > (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive > and reply to > > emails, at least sporadically. > > After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems > installed. > > Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual > approach, > > beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, > then > > some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat > plus adequate > > drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > additional, > > possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate > anyway, but > I > > think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - > > would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming > the ambiant > > humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > > I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w > > installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just > one 25w with > > standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). > > The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus > 10, > > up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low > > wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's > now, but they > > used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > > I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and > > 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > > If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay > attention (a piano > > faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant > lobbyist for funds > > to install more. > > I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. > > The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a > > grand. > > Regards, > > Fred Sturm > > University of New Mexico > > > > --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > > wrote: > > > > > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the > problem of > > > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > > > pitch changes to knock my head against. > > > > > > Alan McCoy > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > > >> Keith McGavern > > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > > >> To: College and University Technicians > > >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > >> > > >> > > >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > > >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > room? > > >> > > >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > > >> > > >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > > >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > > >> boards. > > >> > > >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > > >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > > >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > > >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > > >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > > >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > > >> > > >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > > >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > > >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > > >> are. > > >> > > >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > > >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > > >> > > >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > > >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > > >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > > >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > > >> > > >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this > > >> task. > > >> > > >> Keith McGavern > > >> Registered Piano Technician > > >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > > >> Piano Technicians Guild > > >> USA > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From okeyes@uidaho.edu Thu Aug 28 18:43:01 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:43:01 -0700 Subject: the hvac thing References: <1643608.1061909522@dhcp-40-0486.unm.edu> <000e01c36c26$e501e6d0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> <124130.1062056594@dhcp-40-0605.unm.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c36d8b$d3c30140$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Fred, Alan & all, >From what I have seen, it would seem to me that older buildings w/out hvac are often better than newer buildings with hvac....at least in certain climates. While the pitch swings have been a bit less this year, the proir 2 years were not bad. The RH is relatively stable here, though it does have some bumps, dips & spikes. The worst time was last summer when the recital hall was closed up after classes ended & nobody really looked in there for about 3 weeks until it was time to get ready for music camp. It was like a huge walk-in cooler and the concert pianos were way out of whack. I had nightmares of Chicago for about a week! By the way, does anyone have the e-mail address of the gentleman from UT who gave the hvac lecture in Dallas. I need to get a copy of his presentation, but seem to have mis-placed the address he gave. For those of you who were not there, that was a great lecture. It would be worthwhile to get a tape or video and a copy of his power-point slides. Really some good information. We need to give our specifications in terms of pitch deviation, rather than just RH guidelines. Makes the engineers do their homework before they design a system which makes things worse. Alan, my advice to you is "pull the plug & open the windows!". Not the conventional wisdom, mind you, but then I'm seldom conventional, & let others judge the wisdom. :-) I doubt that it would fly anyway, especially since you would probably have to break windows to get some fresh air. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Sturm" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, with respect > to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and would > normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the same actual > moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the normal rise > in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings without > modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without > humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. I > always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house is probably > the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch will > stay constant for years :-) > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes > wrote: > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor > > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, > > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than > > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have > > seen in some time. > > > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much > > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of > > pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the > > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch > > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new > > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have > > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, > > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in > > the mid-west, we would > > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to fix > > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I > > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we > > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may > > be worse than the disease. > > > > Otto > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fred Sturm" > > To: "College and University Technicians" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > >> Hi Alan, > >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses > >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply > >> to emails, at least sporadically. > >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. > >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, > >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, > > then > >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate > >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > > additional, > >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but > > I > >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - > >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the > >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w > >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with > >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). > >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus > > 10, > >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low > >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they > >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and > >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano > >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for > >> funds to install more. > >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. > >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a > >> grand. > >> Regards, > >> Fred Sturm > >> University of New Mexico > >> > >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of > >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. > >> > > >> > Alan McCoy > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > >> >> To: College and University Technicians > >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > > room? > >> >> > >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > >> >> > >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > >> >> boards. > >> >> > >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > >> >> > >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > >> >> are. > >> >> > >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > >> >> > >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > >> >> > >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this > >> >> task. > >> >> > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Registered Piano Technician > >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > >> >> Piano Technicians Guild > >> >> USA > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Thu Aug 28 19:25:55 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:25:55 -0700 Subject: the hvac thing In-Reply-To: <000a01c36d8b$d3c30140$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: Yeah. I'd love to open some windows. I'm guessing, however, that it would not put me in the graces of the powers that be, i.e. the custodial staff. ;-) Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > Otto Keyes > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 10:43 AM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: the hvac thing > > > Fred, Alan & all, > > >From what I have seen, it would seem to me that older buildings > w/out hvac > are often better than newer buildings with hvac....at least in certain > climates. While the pitch swings have been a bit less this year, > the proir > 2 years were not bad. The RH is relatively stable here, though > it does have > some bumps, dips & spikes. The worst time was last summer when > the recital > hall was closed up after classes ended & nobody really looked in there for > about 3 weeks until it was time to get ready for music camp. It > was like a > huge walk-in cooler and the concert pianos were way out of whack. I had > nightmares of Chicago for about a week! > > By the way, does anyone have the e-mail address of the gentleman > from UT who > gave the hvac lecture in Dallas. I need to get a copy of his > presentation, > but seem to have mis-placed the address he gave. For those of > you who were > not there, that was a great lecture. It would be worthwhile to get a tape > or video and a copy of his power-point slides. Really some good > information. We need to give our specifications in terms of pitch > deviation, rather than just RH guidelines. Makes the engineers do their > homework before they design a system which makes things worse. > > Alan, my advice to you is "pull the plug & open the windows!". Not the > conventional wisdom, mind you, but then I'm seldom conventional, & let > others judge the wisdom. :-) I doubt that it would fly anyway, especially > since you would probably have to break windows to get some fresh air. > > Otto > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Sturm" > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:43 AM > Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, > with respect > > to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and > would > > normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the > same actual > > moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the > normal rise > > in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings without > > modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without > > humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. I > > always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house > is probably > > the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch > will > > stay constant for years :-) > > Regards, > > Fred Sturm > > University of New Mexico > > > > --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes > > > wrote: > > > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC > compressor > > > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As > a result, > > > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter > than > > > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer > than we have > > > seen in some time. > > > > > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained > much > > > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents > of > > > pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up > the > > > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet > the pitch > > > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > > > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come > on the new > > > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you > have > > > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, > > > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down > east, or in > > > the mid-west, we would > > > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > > > > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper > admin. to fix > > > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. > I > > > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we > > > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure > may > > > be worse than the disease. > > > > > > Otto > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Fred Sturm" > > > To: "College and University Technicians" > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > > > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > > > > >> Hi Alan, > > >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms > and viruses > > >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can > receive and reply > > >> to emails, at least sporadically. > > >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems > installed. > > >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual > approach, > > >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a > few more, > > > then > > >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus > adequate > > >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > > > additional, > > >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, > but > > > I > > >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this > application - > > >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the > > >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > > >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w > and one 25w > > >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w > with > > >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years > ago). > > >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents > (up to plus > > > 10, > > >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time > here). The low > > >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but > they > > >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > > >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, > with 50w and > > >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > > >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a > piano > > >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for > > >> funds to install more. > > >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any > new piano. > > >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the > cost of a > > >> grand. > > >> Regards, > > >> Fred Sturm > > >> University of New Mexico > > >> > > >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, > the problem > of > > >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, > 20-30c > > >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. > > >> > > > >> > Alan McCoy > > >> > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org > [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > > >> >> Keith McGavern > > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > > >> >> To: College and University Technicians > > >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > > >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > > > room? > > >> >> > > >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > > >> >> > > >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I > go down the > > >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > > >> >> boards. > > >> >> > > >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of > the > > >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > > >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon > plastic jugs that > > >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the > water > > >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I > refill. I do > > >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > > >> >> > > >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > > >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > > >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how > empty the tanks > > >> >> are. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users > of the rooms > > >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > > >> >> > > >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do > reschedule > > >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. > This maximizes > > >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch > on > > >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me > to do this > > >> >> task. > > >> >> > > >> >> Keith McGavern > > >> >> Registered Piano Technician > > >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > > >> >> Piano Technicians Guild > > >> >> USA > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Thu Aug 28 21:16:28 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:16:28 -0700 Subject: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <50.21524988.2c7cd407@aol.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wim, How long is the course, ie how many classroom hours, and how many credits? You have an outline of the course you'd be willing to share? Alan -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Wimblees@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:17 AM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: piano parts, etc I've got the go ahead from our department chair to present a proposal to the faculty curriculum committee for a piano course, which I'm calling "Piano: It's Parts & Functions." I want to use the book by roughly that name, but I don't have it. I need the author and publisher. Any one have that book? Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/3e/99/f7/a7/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From roger@dampp-chaser.com Thu Aug 28 21:31:53 2003 From: roger@dampp-chaser.com (Roger Wheelock) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:31:53 -0400 Subject: Dickson Data Loggers Message-ID: <007401c36da3$6b6bf580$2001a8c0@rogerspc> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hello list, I recalibrated the data loggers we use in the CAUT Field Data = Acquisition Program (FDAP) today. In 18 months the 13 loggers had all = dropped 2-3% below a 42% RH standard, except for one that dropped 6%. = The 2-3% downward drift seems reasonable for this time frame given the = quality of the electronic sensor. I still have a few in the field from last years program, but will be = sending out recalibrated loggers to those who have contacted me = previously. I will then post to the list if there are any left over for = the 2003-2004 academic year. Thank you to all who supported last year's FDAP. Roger ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/cd/39/b3/13/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jim_busby@byu.edu Thu Aug 28 21:00:16 2003 From: jim_busby@byu.edu (Jim Busby) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:00:16 -0600 Subject: the hvac thing Message-ID: <5F2F69090FA7B5428B8C60918047BB76E508F3@thorn.byu.edu> Otto, Are you referring to Vince Mrykalo? As I recall, he's the only one besides myself from Utah that was there. madvinmryk@yahoo.com. Jim Busby BYU -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Otto Keyes Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:43 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: the hvac thing Fred, Alan & all, >From what I have seen, it would seem to me that older buildings w/out hvac are often better than newer buildings with hvac....at least in certain climates. While the pitch swings have been a bit less this year, the proir 2 years were not bad. The RH is relatively stable here, though it does have some bumps, dips & spikes. The worst time was last summer when the recital hall was closed up after classes ended & nobody really looked in there for about 3 weeks until it was time to get ready for music camp. It was like a huge walk-in cooler and the concert pianos were way out of whack. I had nightmares of Chicago for about a week! By the way, does anyone have the e-mail address of the gentleman from UT who gave the hvac lecture in Dallas. I need to get a copy of his presentation, but seem to have mis-placed the address he gave. For those of you who were not there, that was a great lecture. It would be worthwhile to get a tape or video and a copy of his power-point slides. Really some good information. We need to give our specifications in terms of pitch deviation, rather than just RH guidelines. Makes the engineers do their homework before they design a system which makes things worse. Alan, my advice to you is "pull the plug & open the windows!". Not the conventional wisdom, mind you, but then I'm seldom conventional, & let others judge the wisdom. :-) I doubt that it would fly anyway, especially since you would probably have to break windows to get some fresh air. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Sturm" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, with respect > to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and would > normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the same actual > moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the normal rise > in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings without > modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without > humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. I > always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house is probably > the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch will > stay constant for years :-) > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes > wrote: > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor > > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, > > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than > > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have > > seen in some time. > > > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much > > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of > > pitch -- in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the > > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch > > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new > > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have > > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, > > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in > > the mid-west, we would > > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to fix > > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I > > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we > > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may > > be worse than the disease. > > > > Otto > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fred Sturm" > > To: "College and University Technicians" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > >> Hi Alan, > >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses > >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply > >> to emails, at least sporadically. > >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. > >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, > >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, > > then > >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate > >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > > additional, > >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but > > I > >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - > >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the > >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w > >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with > >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). > >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus > > 10, > >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low > >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they > >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and > >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano > >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for > >> funds to install more. > >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. > >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a > >> grand. > >> Regards, > >> Fred Sturm > >> University of New Mexico > >> > >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of > >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. > >> > > >> > Alan McCoy > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > >> >> To: College and University Technicians > >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > > room? > >> >> > >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > >> >> > >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > >> >> boards. > >> >> > >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > >> >> > >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > >> >> are. > >> >> > >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > >> >> > >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > >> >> > >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this > >> >> task. > >> >> > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Registered Piano Technician > >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > >> >> Piano Technicians Guild > >> >> USA > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From WOLFLEEL@UCMAIL.UC.EDU Thu Aug 28 21:44:40 2003 From: WOLFLEEL@UCMAIL.UC.EDU (Wolfley, Eric (wolfleel)) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:44:40 -0400 Subject: the hvac thing Message-ID: <9BA6DCC15456CC46894E77233173DD7CAF7005@UCMAIL5> Hi Jim et al. I got his card while we were there... Claud Kissmann Claud.kissmann@cpfm.utexas.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Wolfley Head Piano Technician Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Jim Busby [mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:00 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: RE: the hvac thing Otto, Are you referring to Vince Mrykalo? As I recall, he's the only one besides myself from Utah that was there. madvinmryk@yahoo.com. Jim Busby BYU -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Otto Keyes Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:43 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: the hvac thing Fred, Alan & all, >From what I have seen, it would seem to me that older buildings w/out hvac are often better than newer buildings with hvac....at least in certain climates. While the pitch swings have been a bit less this year, the proir 2 years were not bad. The RH is relatively stable here, though it does have some bumps, dips & spikes. The worst time was last summer when the recital hall was closed up after classes ended & nobody really looked in there for about 3 weeks until it was time to get ready for music camp. It was like a huge walk-in cooler and the concert pianos were way out of whack. I had nightmares of Chicago for about a week! By the way, does anyone have the e-mail address of the gentleman from UT who gave the hvac lecture in Dallas. I need to get a copy of his presentation, but seem to have mis-placed the address he gave. For those of you who were not there, that was a great lecture. It would be worthwhile to get a tape or video and a copy of his power-point slides. Really some good information. We need to give our specifications in terms of pitch deviation, rather than just RH guidelines. Makes the engineers do their homework before they design a system which makes things worse. Alan, my advice to you is "pull the plug & open the windows!". Not the conventional wisdom, mind you, but then I'm seldom conventional, & let others judge the wisdom. :-) I doubt that it would fly anyway, especially since you would probably have to break windows to get some fresh air. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Sturm" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, with respect > to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and would > normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the same actual > moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the normal rise > in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings without > modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without > humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. I > always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house is probably > the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch will > stay constant for years :-) > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes > wrote: > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC compressor > > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a result, > > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter than > > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we have > > seen in some time. > > > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have remained much > > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 cents of > > pitch-in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so up the > > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the pitch > > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the new > > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you have > > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume so, > > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or in > > the mid-west, we would > > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to fix > > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat nervous. I > > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so we > > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the cure may > > be worse than the disease. > > > > Otto > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fred Sturm" > > To: "College and University Technicians" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > >> Hi Alan, > >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and viruses > >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and reply > >> to emails, at least sporadically. > >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems installed. > >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual approach, > >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few more, > > then > >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus adequate > >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > > additional, > >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate anyway, but > > I > >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this application - > >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the > >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one 25w > >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one 25w with > >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years ago). > >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to plus > > 10, > >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The low > >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, but they > >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w and > >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents throughout. > >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a piano > >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist for > >> funds to install more. > >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new piano. > >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost of a > >> grand. > >> Regards, > >> Fred Sturm > >> University of New Mexico > >> > >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the problem of > >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, 20-30c > >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. > >> > > >> > Alan McCoy > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > >> >> To: College and University Technicians > >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room to > > room? > >> >> > >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > >> >> > >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down the > >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > >> >> boards. > >> >> > >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each of the > >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a connection > >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs that > >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the water > >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I do > >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > >> >> > >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to make > >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the tanks > >> >> are. > >> >> > >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the rooms > >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > >> >> > >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do reschedule > >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This maximizes > >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the pitch on > >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > >> >> > >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do this > >> >> task. > >> >> > >> >> Keith McGavern > >> >> Registered Piano Technician > >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > >> >> Piano Technicians Guild > >> >> USA > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut _______________________________________________ caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From okeyes@uidaho.edu Thu Aug 28 21:59:06 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:59:06 -0700 Subject: the hvac thing References: <9BA6DCC15456CC46894E77233173DD7CAF7005@UCMAIL5> Message-ID: <001001c36da7$384751f0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Thanks Eric. I have his card somewhere too, but can't locate it at the moment. It's somewhere in my piling system. Otto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolfley, Eric (wolfleel)" To: "'College and University Technicians'" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: RE: the hvac thing > > Hi Jim et al. > > I got his card while we were there... > > Claud Kissmann > > Claud.kissmann@cpfm.utexas.edu > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Eric Wolfley > Head Piano Technician > Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music > University of Cincinnati > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Busby [mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:00 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: RE: the hvac thing > > Otto, > > Are you referring to Vince Mrykalo? As I recall, he's the only one besides > myself from Utah that was there. madvinmryk@yahoo.com. > Jim Busby BYU > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of > Otto Keyes > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:43 AM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: the hvac thing > > Fred, Alan & all, > >From what I have seen, it would seem to me that older buildings w/out > hvac are often better than newer buildings with hvac....at least in certain > climates. While the pitch swings have been a bit less this year, the proir > 2 years were not bad. The RH is relatively stable here, though it does have > some bumps, dips & spikes. The worst time was last summer when the recital > hall was closed up after classes ended & nobody really looked in there for > about 3 weeks until it was time to get ready for music camp. It was like a > huge walk-in cooler and the concert pianos were way out of whack. I had > nightmares of Chicago for about a week! > By the way, does anyone have the e-mail address of the gentleman from UT who > gave the hvac lecture in Dallas. I need to get a copy of his presentation, > but seem to have mis-placed the address he gave. For those of you who were > not there, that was a great lecture. It would be worthwhile to get a tape > or video and a copy of his power-point slides. Really some good > information. We need to give our specifications in terms of pitch > deviation, rather than just RH guidelines. Makes the engineers do their > homework before they design a system which makes things worse. > Alan, my advice to you is "pull the plug & open the windows!". Not the > conventional wisdom, mind you, but then I'm seldom conventional, & let > others judge the wisdom. :-) I doubt that it would fly anyway, especially > since you would probably have to break windows to get some fresh air. > Otto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Sturm" > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:43 AM > Subject: Re: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > Interesting, Otto. Could be that lacking AC was a good thing, with > respect > > to humidity. Higher temps may have meant lower relative humidity (and > would > > normally mean that, assuming the same source of air, with the same > actual > > moisture content), hence less pitch drift upward, assuming the normal > rise > > in humidity over the summer. Often I think that older buildings > without > > modern HVAC systems can be easier on pianos than newer ones without > > humidity control - depends on all the details of the systems involved. > I > > always tell my customers that the stuffiest room in the house is > probably > > the best one to put the piano in. Just hermetically seal it, and pitch > will > > stay constant for years :-) > > Regards, > > Fred Sturm > > University of New Mexico > > > > --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:08 PM -0700 Otto Keyes > > > wrote: > > > > > Had an interesting developement over the summer, in that the AC > compressor > > > for the main recital hall & large classroom packed it in. As a > result, > > > those areas, as well as all the studios around them were much hotter > than > > > usual this summer. This has also been a much hotter summer than we > have > > > seen in some time. > > > > > > However, though the pianos were in need of tuning, they have > remained > much > > > closer to pitch than expected. In general, they were within 2-5 > cents > of > > > pitch-in contrast to Alan's 20-30 cent swing just 60 miles or so > up > the > > > road at EWU. We have virtually no humidity control here, yet the > pitch > > > swings are very manageable for the most part. Pitch adjustments are > > > required, but are not the general fare. These generally come on the > new > > > pianos and Wurlitzer studios, which one would expect anyway. Do you > have > > > "humidity control" on the hvac system in your building? I assume > so, > > > since it is much newer than our buildings. If we were down east, or > in > > > the mid-west, we would > > > be managing the pitch much like one does a yo-yo. > > > > > > There seems to be some move afoot on the part of the upper admin. to > fix > > > the problems with the music building, which makes me somewhat > nervous. > I > > > need to get a data logger in here to see what's really happening so > we > > > can have some intelligent input into the process. Otherwise the > cure > may > > > be worse than the disease. > > > > > > Otto > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Fred Sturm" > > > To: "College and University Technicians" > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:52 PM > > > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > > > > >> Hi Alan, > > >> Our university server has finally cleared out enough worms and > viruses > > >> (and mostly overload caused by the latter) that I can receive and > reply > > >> to emails, at least sporadically. > > >> After 15 years, I now have a grand total of three full systems > installed. > > >> Patience is the operative word here. Let me recommend a gradual > approach, > > >> beginning with half systems on a few critical pianos, then a few > more, > > > then > > >> some upgrades to full systems. Half system being humidistat plus > adequate > > >> drying tubes - at least one 50 watt, for grands plus one or two > > > additional, > > >> possibly lower watt. I like the dry humidistat for my climate > anyway, > but > > > I > > >> think the dry would be best just about anywhere for this > application - > > >> would keep the piano within the low end of the cycle (assuming the > > >> ambiant humidity goes below 35% on a regular basis). > > >> I have a couple Steinway B's with half systems with one 50w and one > 25w > > >> installed along with dry humidistat, and another B with just one > 25w > with > > >> standard humidistat (that's what I originally used, maybe 12 years > ago). > > >> The higher wattage pianos were plus and minus 8 to 10 cents (up to > plus > > > 10, > > >> up to minus 8) at the end of the summer (high pitch time here). The > low > > >> wattage was plus 10 to 25 cents. I don't have any naked B's now, > but > they > > >> used to be plus 15 to 40 cents. > > >> I also have a couple B's with G6PS installed (full system, with 50w > and > > >> 37w drying units). Both were within plus or minus 5 cents > throughout. > > >> If you demonstrate the results to someone who will pay attention (a > piano > > >> faculty member?), you can possibly recruit an assistant lobbyist > for > > >> funds to install more. > > >> I like the idea of including a system in the purchase of any new > piano. > > >> The cost is insignificant in that context - less than 1% the cost > of a > > >> grand. > > >> Regards, > > >> Fred Sturm > > >> University of New Mexico > > >> > > >> --On Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:25 PM -0700 Alan McCoy > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Now this is a problem I'd like to have. I have, instead, the > problem > of > > >> > getting money to purchase dampp chaser systems. And, of course, > 20-30c > > >> > pitch changes to knock my head against. > > >> > > > >> > Alan McCoy > > >> > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On > Behalf Of > > >> >> Keith McGavern > > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:54 PM > > >> >> To: College and University Technicians > > >> >> Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> At 7:01 PM -0500 8/19/03, Mark Cramer wrote: > > >> >> > ...Anyone progress with ideas for porting the water from room > to > > > room? > > >> >> > > >> >> Here's what I've been doing for years: > > >> >> > > >> >> This involves 27 Sohmer Studios *without* fill tubes. I go down > the > > >> >> hall to each room, turn on the light and remove the lower front > > >> >> boards. > > >> >> > > >> >> I then access a water faucet in the custodian's closet on each > of > the > > >> >> three floors with a 3' black rubber hose fitted with a > connection > > >> >> device for the faucet. From that I fill two gallon plastic jugs > that > > >> >> I walk to the pianos. The tanks are hung low enough to pour the > water > > >> >> in the humidity tanks. . When the jugs become empth, I refill. I > do > > >> >> add Humidity Treatment to the jugs each fill-up. > > >> >> > > >> >> During the filling of the humidity tanks, I check the rods to > make > > >> >> sure the units are operating and check the pads for crust. This > > >> >> process takes between 45-60 minutes depending on how empty the > tanks > > >> >> are. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have a notice sign on each piano asking for the users of the > rooms > > >> >> to call when they notice a Low Water Light blinking. > > >> >> > > >> >> If just one call comes in, I go and do all the tanks. I do > reschedule > > >> >> in conjunction on the chance of not receiving a call. This > maximizes > > >> >> the effective purpose of the DP systems. I now can float the > pitch > on > > >> >> each piano and seldom do pitch changes on these pianos. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have found no quicker, reliable or efficient way for me to do > this > > >> >> task. > > >> >> > > >> >> Keith McGavern > > >> >> Registered Piano Technician > > >> >> Oklahoma Chapter 731 > > >> >> Piano Technicians Guild > > >> >> USA > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Thu Aug 28 16:01:58 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:01:58 Subject: Dickson Data Loggers In-Reply-To: <007401c36da3$6b6bf580$2001a8c0@rogerspc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030828150158.00c3ee88@accesscomm.ca> Hi Roger, Are the results being presented any time soon from last years measurings? At 04:31 PM 8/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: > Hello list, for this time frame given the quality of the >electronic sensor. I will then post to the list if there are any left >over for the 2003-2004 academic year. Thank you to all who supported last >year's FDAP. Roger Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 29 00:14:57 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:14:57 EDT Subject: piano parts, etc Message-ID: <139.245fa40e.2c7fe6f1@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In a message dated 8/28/03 3:22:41 PM Central Daylight Time, amccoy@mail.ewu.edu writes: > Wim, > > How long is the course, ie how many classroom hours, and how many credits? > You have an outline of the course you'd be willing to share? > > Alan > I have just put in the request, so it hasn't officially been approved. But I am proposing for it to be one semester long, (14 weeks), three times a week for an hour (50 minutes), for 3 hours of credit. Since there is a committee working on a curriculum, I would like to wait and see what they come up with. I wanted to present a syllabus to the faculty committee, and so I came up with something. As soon as the CAUT committee has come up with syllabus, I might refine mine a little. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/e9/cd/1f/9c/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dmckech@ithaca.edu Thu Aug 28 20:23:25 2003 From: dmckech@ithaca.edu (Don McKechnie) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:23:25 -0700 Subject: the hvac thing Message-ID: <3F4E56AC.5FBF05C4@ithaca.edu> Otto and list, The UT Austin engineer that gave the HVAC class is Claud Kissmann. He mentioned that the .pdf's from his PowerPoint presentation would have available. I emailed him a couple of weeks ago about the .pdf's but have yet to hear from him. I believe Gayle Mair video taped the class but I do not know if that will be available. It was indeed a great presentation. Charles or Mary, could you possibly find out if Claud's .pdf's will be available? Don McKechnie From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Fri Aug 29 02:45:30 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:45:30 -0700 Subject: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <139.245fa40e.2c7fe6f1@aol.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Thanks Wim, One of the more difficult aspects of this curriculum project, I think, is knowing how much time to allow for each section, hence my questions. I am gradually filling out the course outline for a semester-long course. I'll send you what I have put together so far. Thanks, Alan -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Wimblees@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:15 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: Re: piano parts, etc In a message dated 8/28/03 3:22:41 PM Central Daylight Time, amccoy@mail.ewu.edu writes: Wim, How long is the course, ie how many classroom hours, and how many credits? You have an outline of the course you'd be willing to share? Alan I have just put in the request, so it hasn't officially been approved. But I am proposing for it to be one semester long, (14 weeks), three times a week for an hour (50 minutes), for 3 hours of credit. Since there is a committee working on a curriculum, I would like to wait and see what they come up with. I wanted to present a syllabus to the faculty committee, and so I came up with something. As soon as the CAUT committee has come up with syllabus, I might refine mine a little. Wim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/74/01/56/6d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From kam544@gbronline.com Fri Aug 29 10:04:15 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:04:15 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <0A4F8E30-D9FD-11D7-BC7D-0003936D17AA@gbronline.com> References: <0A4F8E30-D9FD-11D7-BC7D-0003936D17AA@gbronline.com> Message-ID: From: Alan McCoy : >... So the question is how much to float. The most I want to float >is A-442 or A-438. So if the pitch is higher or lower than that, >I'll float to 442 or Begin 438. Otherwise I pick the pitch (often >the high bass) that is a middle ground so I am moving the strings as >little as possible. forwarded message: >Any other ideas? Alan, I approach the concept of floating the pitch just a bit differently. Using the parameters you've given of A438 to A442, if a piano should fall within that area, then I would do a single tuning pass, thereby floating the pitch would be accomplished. However, If the piano pitch falls outside those parameters, then I would do a pitch change and a tuning pass to bring the piano closer to A440, thereby initiating the potential use of the float concept on the next visit to the piano. Hope I explained that okay, Keith McGavern, RPT Oklahoma Baptist University Saint Gregory's University Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA From Wimblees@aol.com Fri Aug 29 16:27:50 2003 From: Wimblees@aol.com (Wimblees@aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:27:50 EDT Subject: Fwd: piano parts, etc Message-ID: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment --part1_6b.1807d065.2c80caf6_alt_boundary > Wim, > I don't think anyone has mentioned to you that this book has no text per > se. It is entirely composed of diagrams with listings of part names. Only > in the glossary are functions addressed. The purpose of this text was to > establish "official" names for the parts of the piano - not as a text which > could serve soley as instruction on function. It's more of a companion > source. So, you might want to consider this in your choice of text. > > Jeff > > Jeff Thank you for your note. I am aware of the contents of the book. I had it at one time, but somewhere along the way it disappeared. (Maybe I gave it tot he chapter library.) But I think a reference book like this could be very useful for my class, for the very reason you explained, as a companion source. My outline includes a description of each part of the piano, it's material, use, and function. I think it would be very helpful if the students had a picture of each part, and where it belongs in the piano. That way, when they call their piano tuner sometime in the future, they can explain exactly which part they think isn't working right. (at least that is the goal). The other reference book I am going to use is Larry Fine's Piano Book. Again, not so much as a text book, but as a reference book, when it comes time in my curriculum for the buying a new and/or used piano. I don't what other book is available on the market that could be used as a text book per se. Do you? Wim --part1_6b.1807d065.2c80caf6_alt_boundary An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/3b/84/02/e3/attachment.htm --part1_6b.1807d065.2c80caf6_alt_boundary-- ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Wimblees@aol.com Subject: Re: piano parts, etc Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:24:33 EDT Size: 4437 Url: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/41/a3/48/0a/attachment.eml ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From jtanner@mozart.sc.edu Fri Aug 29 16:34:41 2003 From: jtanner@mozart.sc.edu (Jeff Tanner) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:34:41 -0400 Subject: Fwd: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> Message-ID: Sure, that's fine. From your post, I just wasn't sure whether you had seen the book and knew what was in it. As far as another text, I don't know. That's part of the reason I posted about a year ago about not having many new texts to choose from and that so many of the old standard texts have gone out of print, and are getting hard to find. I've found a few used texts on Ebay, and some of them sell pretty high. There are plenty of texts on how to regulate an action, by using standard settings of where to position the parts. But as far as generally explaining how the jack, repetition lever, etc, function to create double escapement, or why the backcheck is important to the function of repetition, I'm unaware of texts which have a general explanation for the purpose of what you're trying to convey. They may be out there, and I haven't seen everything that's out there. But neither have I heard any referrals to any of those texts if they are available. Jeff > Jeff > > Thank you for your note. I am aware of the contents of the book. I had it >at one time, but somewhere along the way it disappeared. (Maybe I gave it >tot he chapter library.) But I think a reference book like this could be >very useful for my class, for the very reason you explained, as a >companion source. My outline includes a description of each part of the >piano, it's material, use, and function. I think it would be very helpful >if the students had a picture of each part, and where it belongs in the >piano. That way, when they call their piano tuner sometime in the future, >they can explain exactly which part they think isn't working right. (at >least that is the goal). > > The other reference book I am going to use is Larry Fine's Piano Book. >Again, not so much as a text book, but as a reference book, when it comes >time in my curriculum for the buying a new and/or used piano. > > I don't what other book is available on the market that could be used as >a text book per se. Do you? > > Wim > > PS I would like to share your post, and the one I just wrote, to the >list. Would you allow that? > > _______________________________________________ >caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut From okeyes@uidaho.edu Fri Aug 29 17:15:37 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:15:37 -0700 Subject: piano parts, etc References: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <002901c36e48$c8a9d5a0$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment belongs in the piano. That way, when they call their piano tuner sometime in the future, they can explain exactly which part they think isn't working right. (at least that is the goal). As my doctor once told me, "He who diagnoses himself has a fool for a physician." This can be the case with piano owners as well. The goal is to get the player on the same page, speaking the same language, as the piano tech, so effective communication can occur, thereby solving the problem. The last thing we want to do is train a bunch of Lone Rangers who go out shooting their mouths off with the authority that only comes from ignorance, thereby making miserable the lives of all future piano techs with whom they come in contact. I know that's not one of your course objectives, however, it can be an out-come unless great care is taken. The truly ignorant will not be dissuaded by any of us, but will pick up the nomenclature cudgel and beat everyone within reach, no matter what disclaimers we apply. The endeavor is, however, worth the risk. Otto ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/b0/42/49/a7/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dm.porritt@verizon.net Fri Aug 29 17:44:17 2003 From: dm.porritt@verizon.net (David M. Porritt) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:44:17 -0500 Subject: Fwd: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> References: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <200308291144170208.015354E5@outgoing.verizon.net> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Wim: I'd consider the Steinway Technical Reference Guide. dave *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/29/2003 at 11:27 AM Wimblees@aol.com wrote: Wim, I don't think anyone has mentioned to you that this book has no text per se. It is entirely composed of diagrams with listings of part names. Only in the glossary are functions addressed. The purpose of this text was to establish "official" names for the parts of the piano - not as a text which could serve soley as instruction on function. It's more of a companion source. So, you might want to consider this in your choice of text. Jeff Jeff Thank you for your note. I am aware of the contents of the book. I had it at one time, but somewhere along the way it disappeared. (Maybe I gave it tot he chapter library.) But I think a reference book like this could be very useful for my class, for the very reason you explained, as a companion source. My outline includes a description of each part of the piano, it's material, use, and function. I think it would be very helpful if the students had a picture of each part, and where it belongs in the piano. That way, when they call their piano tuner sometime in the future, they can explain exactly which part they think isn't working right. (at least that is the goal). The other reference book I am going to use is Larry Fine's Piano Book. Again, not so much as a text book, but as a reference book, when it comes time in my curriculum for the buying a new and/or used piano. I don't what other book is available on the market that could be used as a text book per se. Do you? Wim **************** END MESSAGE FROM Wimblees@aol.com ********************* _____________________________ David M. Porritt dporritt@mail.smu.edu Meadows School of the Arts Southern Methodist University Dallas, TX 75275 _____________________________ ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/36/09/a8/92/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pianotuna@accesscomm.ca Fri Aug 29 15:46:37 2003 From: pianotuna@accesscomm.ca (Don) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:46:37 Subject: Fwd: piano parts, etc In-Reply-To: References: <6b.1807d065.2c80caf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030829144637.00a3d2a8@accesscomm.ca> Hi Wim, I'm sure all your students will have computers--why not see if you could get a "deal" on the 20 years of the journal set? Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Fri Aug 29 17:34:26 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:34:26 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment > Using the parameters you've given of A438 to A442, if a piano should > fall within that area, then I would do a single tuning pass, thereby > floating the pitch would be accomplished. Keith, I probably wasn't clear the first time. It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page. Like if the pitch is more or less averaging 441, I'll tune the whole piano there assuming that it is the wet season. Or, vice versa in the dry season, I'll tune it on the flat side, but the max I'll float is about 8c (sharp or flat depending on the season). So if the piano falls outside the 8c region, I'll tune down to 442 or up to 438 assuming the pitch will eventually float toward A-440 as the season changes. This what you are thinking? Alan > > However, If the piano pitch falls outside those parameters, then I > would do a pitch change and a tuning pass to bring the piano closer > to A440, thereby initiating the potential use of the float concept on > the next visit to the piano. > > Hope I explained that okay, > > Keith McGavern, RPT > Oklahoma Baptist University > Saint Gregory's University > Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3210 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/caut/attachments/88/a4/d1/c1/winmail.dat ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From kam544@gbronline.com Fri Aug 29 23:56:38 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:56:38 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:34 AM -0700 8/29/03, Alan McCoy wrote: >... I probably wasn't clear the first time. No, I understood you. >It sounds like we are pretty much on >the same page. ... No. If the piano falls outside the range you indicated, you bring the piano back *only* to A438 or A442. I take it back to A440. Mind you, this is on the pianos that have complete Dampp-Chaser systems. I treat pianos without the systems differently. More akin to what you are doing, but not always. Okay? Keith McGavern From okeyes@uidaho.edu Sat Aug 30 01:00:04 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:00:04 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers References: Message-ID: <001a01c36e89$aa410a70$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Alan, I do a quick run through the piano to check the pitch on various notes, running up & down a couple of times through the octaves (A,C,D#,F#), find an average and adjust to that. You quickly get a feel for how a piano reacts to changes once you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan McCoy" To: "College and University Technicians" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > Using the parameters you've given of A438 to A442, if a piano should > > fall within that area, then I would do a single tuning pass, thereby > > floating the pitch would be accomplished. > > Keith, > > I probably wasn't clear the first time. It sounds like we are pretty much on > the same page. Like if the pitch is more or less averaging 441, I'll tune > the whole piano there assuming that it is the wet season. Or, vice versa in > the dry season, I'll tune it on the flat side, but the max I'll float is > about 8c (sharp or flat depending on the season). So if the piano falls > outside the 8c region, I'll tune down to 442 or up to 438 assuming the pitch > will eventually float toward A-440 as the season changes. This what you are > thinking? > > Alan > > > > > > However, If the piano pitch falls outside those parameters, then I > > would do a pitch change and a tuning pass to bring the piano closer > > to A440, thereby initiating the potential use of the float concept on > > the next visit to the piano. > > > > Hope I explained that okay, > > > > Keith McGavern, RPT > > Oklahoma Baptist University > > Saint Gregory's University > > Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > From okeyes@uidaho.edu Sat Aug 30 01:11:30 2003 From: okeyes@uidaho.edu (Otto Keyes) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:11:30 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers Message-ID: <002e01c36e8b$4326c670$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> One more time w/out the cursor on the send button. > Alan, > > I do a quick run through the piano to check the pitch on various notes, > running up & down a couple of times through the octaves (A,C,D#,F#), find an > average and adjust to that. You quickly get a feel for how a piano reacts > to changes once you've tuned it a few times. Whatever the case, I tend to push it toward A-440 from either side in the hope it will stabilze a bit. Some never do, but at least you modulate the swings, which seems to help with over-all tuning stability. I never pick a note as an absolute, but rather pick a pitch that seems to be average by a roughly equal number rolling flat & sharp. Location in the scale has a bearing on that judgement as well, since some areas are inherently more unstable that others, or affect other areas more significantly when pitch is changed. Otto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan McCoy" > To: "College and University Technicians" > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:34 AM > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > > > Using the parameters you've given of A438 to A442, if a piano should > > > fall within that area, then I would do a single tuning pass, thereby > > > floating the pitch would be accomplished. > > > > Keith, > > > > I probably wasn't clear the first time. It sounds like we are pretty much > on > > the same page. Like if the pitch is more or less averaging 441, I'll tune > > the whole piano there assuming that it is the wet season. Or, vice versa > in > > the dry season, I'll tune it on the flat side, but the max I'll float is > > about 8c (sharp or flat depending on the season). So if the piano falls > > outside the 8c region, I'll tune down to 442 or up to 438 assuming the > pitch > > will eventually float toward A-440 as the season changes. This what you > are > > thinking? > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > However, If the piano pitch falls outside those parameters, then I > > > would do a pitch change and a tuning pass to bring the piano closer > > > to A440, thereby initiating the potential use of the float concept on > > > the next visit to the piano. > > > > > > Hope I explained that okay, > > > > > > Keith McGavern, RPT > > > Oklahoma Baptist University > > > Saint Gregory's University > > > Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > > > From kam544@gbronline.com Sat Aug 30 01:29:31 2003 From: kam544@gbronline.com (Keith McGavern) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:29:31 -0500 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: <001a01c36e89$aa410a70$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> References: <001a01c36e89$aa410a70$33856581@noneydqch8izcy> Message-ID: At 5:00 PM -0700 8/29/03, Otto Keyes wrote: >... I do a quick run through the piano to check the pitch on various notes, >running up & down a couple of times through the octaves (A,C,D#,F#), find an >average and adjust to that. ... Otto, Alan, Along those same lines, I strip mute the entire piano, then read each note using a previous recorded tuning record to make my decisions on where to float, or not, or as you say, "find an average and adjust to that". Also, knowing your brand and models, and how they respond/react, makes a huge difference in the decision making process! Keith McGavern From amccoy@mail.ewu.edu Sat Aug 30 00:15:21 2003 From: amccoy@mail.ewu.edu (Alan McCoy) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:15:21 -0700 Subject: filling Dampp-Chasers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment Ah Ha! For those with systems. Therein lies the difference! Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of > Keith McGavern > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 3:57 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: RE: filling Dampp-Chasers > > > At 9:34 AM -0700 8/29/03, Alan McCoy wrote: > >... I probably wasn't clear the first time. > > No, I understood you. > > >It sounds like we are pretty much on > >the same page. ... > > No. If the piano falls outside the range you indicated, you bring the > piano back *only* to A438 or A442. I take it back to A440. Mind you, > this is on the pianos that have complete Dampp-Chaser systems. > > I treat pianos without the systems differently. More akin to what you > are doing, but not always. > > Okay? > > Keith McGavern > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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