EBVT Offsets (compilation)

[Isaac OLEG]

Hello,

Kent, esoteric is the good word , in musician's mind, that is
something a little too marginal, as they seem to prefer a very even
and well voiced action to the most gorgeous Well tuning.

I like to have some distance from pure ET sometime, but I may be first
in the complete evening of the tone & touch, and ET helps a lot to
check things.

I believe that HT may not take power to the music, that is the risk
IMHO.

I've hear of Richard wanting to tune meantone on a modern grand, I
doubt any pianist will be pleased with that, even to play Rameau, on
an historical instrument that's a totally different story, the modern
grand lend naturally more to a less contrasted tuning.

But may be I am too far from their taste after all.

A very little tweaking of Et this summer gives some harmonic shade and
a bit more contrast to a Steinway that where a little unlived, but the
best pianists noticed it, as they find different marks from ET (while
not being bothered with).

I tuned aurally a few EBVT, but find it too crude and bland (C Major
tuning)
It changed even the way I tune unisons, it is too cold for my taste ,
but I was probably far from what the conceptor does.

One of our best retired tuners produced a very tweaked tuning
sometime, and recon ciliate the tenths and 17ths while going along the
scale, but his tone where more round and pleasing that what I obtained
with this too much pure filths tuning.

I could not obtain his bearing plan, as he stopped working and the
trade get him almost crazy so he does not want to speak to nobody now.

I will take time to work on that ... later.

Regards.


Isaac OLEG


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de
> Kent Swafford
> Envoye : dimanche 6 octobre 2002 01:51
> A : College and University Technicians
> Objet : Re: EBVT Offsets (compilation)
>
>
> My concerns about the availability of aural descriptions of
> the various
> temperaments may very well be rendered moot if Jason
> Kanter's graphs
> prove to be authoritative, and stay generally available.
>
> I don't have a problem working to tolerances that are
> beyond some of
> our customers' abilities to perceive and/or understand. Historical
> temperaments themselves are beyond what some of our customers are
> capable of hearing and appreciating. A piano professor at
> one of the
> colleges where I occasionally work dismissed historical
> temperaments in
> general with a wave of her hand, saying, "Oh, that's just a _tuner_
> thing."
>
> Right. Well, we're the pros. Our customers have varying
> needs. A few of
> our customers can hear and understand right up to the highest level
> that we can produce, and I think we need to be ready for
> them -- up to
> and including having the ability to explain the relative beat rates
> that are forming the key colors they are hearing in the esoteric
> temperament we just tuned for them.  :)
>
> Kent S
>
>
> On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 02:25 PM, A440A@aol.com wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >    There is a point of diminishing returns involved in these
> > decisions.  If a
> > particular harmonic quality depends on distinctions of
> less than one
> > cent,
> > there are going to be few pianos or venues where they
> will make any
> > difference.  Pianos move around.   Octaves that vary by 1
> cent will
> > usually
> > not be noticed by musicians, and the effect of an equal
> beating triad
> > is
> > rarely altered by the amount of divergence a machine-only tuning
> > allows.
> > This is more true of well-scaled pianos.  Any short scale
> spinet can be
> > better tuned by ear, since the machines don't make
> compromises very
> > well,(the
> > VT may do better than the others, depending on operator skill).
> >    Also, the difference between a fifth that is Just and
> one that has
> > 1 cent
> > of tempering in not a difference that can be heard in the music,
> > unless there
> > is a particular use, in isolation, that sustains long
> enough.  Or, to
> > put in
> > another way, in fast passage work,(Scarlatti?) the tuning
> is almost
> > irrelevant.
> >     It is also seen that due to the coupled nature of
> piano strings,
> > they can
> > "draw" one another away from the pitch that would be produced in
> > isolation.
> > (hold down an ET C3-E3 and strike a staccato on the E5.
> You will not
> > hear
> > the beating for a couple of seconds, then the "drawing"
> created by the
> > single
> > frequency of E5 will be overcome by the resonant periods
> of the lower
> > strings
> > and you will hear the beating begin).
> >     As we tuners go through measuring intervals, we are hearing
> > phenomena on
> > a degree of scale that musicians don't.  I have seen this
> in changing
> > the
> > stretch for studio engineers and musicians.  Even the
> most astute ears
> > didn't
> > hear the difference between two tunings where the final
> C's ended up
> > 10 cents
> > apart.  I have tuned the top octaves of a piano with so
> much stretch
> > that it
> > almost sounded like two different notes, but the group of
> techs in
> > front of
> > me didn't notice anything until I pointed it out.  Only
> when the single
> > octaves were played in slow movements did it become apparent.
> >
> >     It has become evident in the last 9 years that the
> arrival of the
> > programmable machine has had a lot to do with the
> increased use of the
> > temperaments. Though the knowledge required has been out
> for decades,
> > working
> > tuners never took up the cause, and I think it had to do with the
> > amount of
> > work involved.   However, there have now been far too
> many pianists
> > successfully playing many venues and pieces, on
> machine-based non-ET
> > tunings
> > to think that the ETD can't produce.  They can.  I have
> seen world
> > class
> > artists blown away by a straight FAC, so I wonder if my 1 cent
> > "tweaks" are
> > really worth the effort.
> >     (I am reminded of the first Sight-O-Tuner, which
> produced a tuning
> > that
> > Arthur Fiedler thought highly of!).  I also believe that
> Jim Coleman
> > has
> > demonstrated a machine only tuning that compared nicely
> with the best
> > of the
> > best ET tuners we have.
> >    The machines aren't perfect, but they don't need to be
> in order to
> > produce
> > results that far exceed musicians ability to
> discriminate.  Many of us
> > that
> > learned to tune strictly aurally will always believe that
> the ear will
> > always
> > outperform the machine, but you will have a hard time finding
> > musicians that
> > can tell any difference between highly skilled techs
> using either.  (
> > I will
> > be giving an aural demo at the chapter meeting this week
> and will try
> > to
> > record what differences are noted between the machines
> interpretation
> > and my
> > own).
> > Regards,
> > Ed Foote
> > _______________________________________________
> > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
>